On Sensitivity Readers

[Demesnedenoir]

Because minorities can't be offensive? I think these are separate issues with overlap.

That said, I don't need to have this conversation with my editor, I'd end up in a three-hour phone call listening to her gripe, heh heh. There's a reason we get along.

I was chatting to my editor today and happened to mention sensitivity readers. I won't quote her, but in between the swear words she basically expressed both amazement and contempt for those publishers who find it necessary to use sensitivity readers. As she put it, if you want to ensure diversity and appropriate characterisation which avoids stereotyping then maybe you as publishers should employ more commissioning and developmental editors from minority backgrounds, instead of trying to correct perceived problems after the book is written. Better still, commission good books by minority authors.

I did ask if my publishers used sensitivity readers and got the answer that no Swedish publisher does. My editor gently reminded me that it's my job as the author to get these things right. Yes, an editor can help, but ultimately it's down to me and my characterisation. She also added that if I don't do the research before writing then I deserve all the criticism I get.

 

[CupofJoe]

Apologies for Necroing a thread after almost a year but I thought this interesting:

In the far from diverse publishing industry, sensitivity readers are vital

Author Anthony Horowitz felt “hurt” when advised by a sensitivity reader on his representation of a Native American character.

theconversation.com

 

[Demesnedenoir]

I couldn't get past the first couple of paragraphs of BS. Sensitivity readers are paid to find objectionable things, and so they will. Among other psychological traits that occur in any profession that must justify its existence. Mission creep is already beyond the logical.

The industry is and was dominated by affluent white women bending over backwards not to offend anyone and find diverse voices (and that was before sensitivity readers). As one person put it, most agents don't earn enough money to live in NYC, in particular starting out, so they have funds from somewhere.

Apologies for Necroing a thread after almost a year but I thought this interesting:

In the far from diverse publishing industry, sensitivity readers are vital

Author Anthony Horowitz felt “hurt” when advised by a sensitivity reader on his representation of a Native American character.

theconversation.com

 

[pmmg]

Well, i don't suspect myself and Beth Daley will find much agreement on this stuff. A year later and i find my thoughts on this have not changed.

 

[pmmg]

Yes, i feel miss Daley sets up a number of false dichotomies to whack the ball off the tee. Maybe she had a limited word count and a deadline.

In fairness, i write fantasy. My cultures are not earthly and i have more freedom i think to present cultures in a way that does not match well earth type sensibilities. If i was writing a story like ‘dances with wolves’ i am sure id want to give native cultures a fair but true effort. But they still have an uphill battle with me.

I do not see the push for this subsiding though. Those who want these are free to follow the path of Disney and others if they like.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

The real trouble is that in the end, there is no pleasing the easily offended, in particular ones being paid via cash, fame, and prestige (or the adrenaline rush of damaging a career) to be offended, heh heh. Cultures tend to whiplash when there is the freedom to do so, so with any luck, the momentum will eventually reverse. In this instance, however, there are a lot of powers pushing the agenda. The whiplash may take time.

Yes, i feel miss Daley sets up a number of false dichotomies to whack the ball off the tee. Maybe she had a limited word count and a deadline.

In fairness, i write fantasy. My cultures are not earthly and i have more freedom i think to present cultures in a way that does not match well earth type sensibilities. If i was writing a story like ‘dances with wolves’ i am sure id want to give native cultures a fair but true effort. But they still have an uphill battle with me.

I do not see the push for this subsiding though. Those who want these are free to follow the path of Disney and others if they like.

 

[The Dark One]

I've always been suspicious of sensitivity readers but not of relevant (to the story) sensitivity.

Interestingly, my latest publisher ran my new novel (out in June) past two sensitivity readers (young female and middle aged female) and reported to me that both had been happy with the portrayal of women and the (mild) sex scenes. That was good, but oddly enough, there remained one scene that bugged me - seemed a little over the top for what it added to the plot so in the very last round of edits I changed it significantly and was much happier with it.

Am I more senitive than the sensitivity readers?

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Everybody is sensitive to something, hell, I'm sensitive to terrible writing! But that sure doesn't keep a lot of it from being published, heh heh. The trouble isn't being sensitive, it's being sensitive and believing your opinion should hold power.

I would probably sensitive to 'sex scenes" because I flat don't like them... and famous people spinning yarns about their lives. By my standards, if invoked, half the industry would be squashed, heh heh

I've always been suspicious of sensitivity readers but not of relevant (to the story) sensitivity.

Interestingly, my latest publisher ran my new novel (out in June) past two sensitivity readers (young female and middle aged female) and reported to me that both had been happy with the portrayal of women and the (mild) sex scenes. That was good, but oddly enough, there remained one scene that bugged me - seemed a little over the top for what it added to the plot so in the very last round of edits I changed it significantly and was much happier with it.

Am I more senitive than the sensitivity readers?

 

[pmmg]

I get sensitive when the penalty for not turning on the lights is a whipping, but I'll leave that to the wannabe priests of strange religions.

This is probably something we will have over the AI, we can offend people

I do think this stuff is on a type of pendulum, push to hard one way, and it will come swinging back. Course, not before there are a lot of casualties.

I am not sure if its been said earlier, but there is a saying, there is no such thing as bad publicity. You can hate my work, it will just make me rich, so please do.

 

[Mad Swede]

Apologies for Necroing a thread after almost a year but I thought this interesting:

In the far from diverse publishing industry, sensitivity readers are vital

Author Anthony Horowitz felt “hurt” when advised by a sensitivity reader on his representation of a Native American character.

theconversation.com

I wonder if Sarah Jilani sees the irony in what she wrote. After all, she has degrees from three of the Russell Group universities (BA(Hons) from York, MSt from Oxford and a PhD from Cambridge), lectures and does research at the University of London, and lives in South East England.

 

[The Dark One]

Everybody is sensitive to something, hell, I'm sensitive to terrible writing! But that sure doesn't keep a lot of it from being published, heh heh. The trouble isn't being sensitive, it's being sensitive and believing your opinion should hold power.

I would probably sensitive to 'sex scenes" because I flat don't like them... and famous people spinning yarns about their lives. By my standards, if invoked, half the industry would be squashed, heh heh

Bad or gratuitous sex scenes are terrible. The only sex scene worth writing (or reading) adds meaningfully to plot, character development or both. It can even add to world building in the right sort of book.

I've posted this before but it never loses its relevance...

How to Write an Excellent Bonking Scene

There is a popular Australian writer (I won’t name) whose success, to me, is a mystery. His plots are painfully predictable, following the same pattern every time, which is reflected in his sex sc…

adriandeans.wordpress.com

 

[Prince of Spires]

What I fail to find in the article is the argument why it matters. Why do you need sensitivity readers? She states that it's important because most editors come from the same background. But that's as far as it goes. There's no actually argument as to why you need sensitivity readers. If anything, she completely misses (or choses to ignore) the complaints by authors she mentions.

I personally don't see an issue with the fact that in Britain most editors are British. If anything, that seems like a completely logical situation. It would like complaining in Japan that everyone is Japanese.

I don't like sensitivity readers. I personally feel art is allowed to be offensive. It's whole purpose is to evoke emotion, and there will always be someone who doesn't like what you've done. It's a surprisingly small step from stopping people from being offensive to sensorship. I very much doubt that cartoonists like the Charlie Hebdo magazine use sensitivity readers. And that's perfectly fine. And I'm sure sensitivity readers would find plenty to be offended by in Monty Python. Even the idea of using a single person (or a few people) to represent a whole group sounds silly to me.

The one exception I think is where you are purposefully writing about the specific issues surrounding a single minority group. In that case getting feedback from said minority makes sense, just like asking a swordfighting expert to comment on your swordfighting scene in your historical novel makes sense.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Monty Python... Oh yeah. Blazing Saddles? Ha ha. Yeah. I understand that mass media wants to avoid offending the masses, but right now, the line is being drawn by tiny groups, much like the use of Redskins for an NFL franchise, where the bulk of Native Americans had no problem with the name, but a small group of activists did... and the most offended group was white people being offended for them. White Savior, anyone? LMAO.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Agatha Christie is now on the sensitivity editor's block. After 2 billion copies sold.

 

[pmmg]

I saw Ian Fleming come up as another.

When I go, I want my estate to know, I do not accept changing stuff to match the sensitivity of the people who would do this.

To me, this is a sad litany that I know will grow and grow. Its like letting the insane people work the levers. No where near me please.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Yup. It's to the point of changing things because someone might be offended. The idea that people have become this thin-skinned is offensive in itself, heh heh.

I saw Ian Fleming come up as another.

When I go, I want my estate to know, I do not accept changing stuff to match the sensitivity of the people who would do this.

To me, this is a sad litany that I know will grow and grow. Its like letting the insane people work the levers. No where near me please.

 

[Queshire]

Was that reall something worth dragging up a month old thread about?

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Yes, it's adding to a conversation that anyone for free speech should be aware of and for anyone interested to check on the details of.

Was that reall something worth dragging up a month old thread about?

 

[pmmg]

Maybe it more belonged in the thread for Mr. Dahl. More of the same subject, but there will not be less of this in the future. I think the theme will repeat until we all bow down to our sensitivity overlords....if the AI does not come to rule us first

 

[Guy]

I make a distinction between authenticity readers and sensitivity readers. I think most of the examples people have given here are what I would file under authenticity readers. Learning about a demographic so one can create an accurate portrayal would be going for authenticity, which leads to better world building, character development, and story development, all of which draw the reader into the story.

But I am dead set against pressuring an author to change their work (or altering existing works) simply because somebody, somewhere, may or may not get their noses out of joint over a simple turn of phrase. Anybody that thin skinned has no business picking up a book.

Any attempt to silence voices is a huge red flag. And what I find particularly insidious is that those who want to silence others don't have to go to the trouble of passing censorship laws if they can bully and intimidate us into censoring ourselves.