Orc females

[nuh-the-deva]

...well...that is not how I work. It needs to be good, it's like a puzzle or a temple that needs be built with internal harmony.
If people just pick an idea and go, then there is no reason to post anything here, is it?

I don't think anyone is saying "don't ask". You just need to be willing to make a mistake and accept that you might choose the wrong orc concept. It's not like you can't try again.

Most of the famous temples/churches have burnt down a time or twenty and the ones that haven't require extensive and constant repairs to stay structurally sound. The skill in these things in making the visitors "percieve" it as perfectly harmonious, whether it is or not.

 

[Rexenm]

You could always go with the hate angle.

 

[Finchbearer]

Just read some Margaret Atwood and be done with it

 

[Rexenm]

There is some particulars I would like to go over however, and this has to do with the brain of the orc. Does this orc lass, have a waterlogged brain, or is something different? There are obviously two sides to this - the literal, and the figurative. In all these idioms of time, I find the orc to have the most confusing, because it is truly evil. It is as if she has separated from the land of fantasy, and has become horrific.

In response to the praise of my ideas, they were very obvious opposites in archetype. There is perhaps a difference between a human and an orc, but how many dualisms can be drawn, besides the fight between good and evil. Sometimes there is a fell voice to the air, maybe that is what is happening in the psyche of the orc human counterpart, to the point that they think that, either this fight between good and evil is gone, or it needs to be reinforced.

I see the picture forming in my mind. There is an orc lass, who departs from her home land, and is she still violent or has she amended her ways. Does she wish to live in a castle, or is there a friendship she wishes to capitalise on. Is she good or evil; not is she alone, because she never is. There is a point when a tribal person goes on a pilgrimage into the woods. They have a vision. Is this vision dangerous? Or is it maybe orc like? Or does it represent sacred feminine?

I thought that cats and dogs were like unto the plight of this story when I was younger. I read by them, I ate with them. There is the watching eye, and there is the fireplace. They are not married, they are kindred. There is a point in which this changed for me, and I went on a pilgrimage of my own. Instead of reality, it became fantasy, and I earned my rite of passage. Whether the orc is going on this same trial, who knows, but if she fights like cats and dogs, that is racist, if there ever was an idea like this.

 

[pmmg]

...well...that is not how I work. It needs to be good, it's like a puzzle or a temple that needs be built with internal harmony.
If people just pick an idea and go, then there is no reason to post anything here, is it?

Sometimes you post a question looking for one answer and you get another answer instead. The advantage of a group of others in the craft looking at what you pose is that they have experience, wisdom and knowledge, and sometimes the best answer is not you want A and here is A but that your question itself needs to be challenged and the author set back to a more useful path. You are free to reject it. My job is not to endlessly spin my wheels with each question. Sometimes its to cut through the BS and say what is most helpful.

IMO this question has sifted away too much of whats its after. Like how do i call something blue… well, how about you call it blue. No, i cant call it blue… i dont know where to go, everything is not blue.

 

[Fettju]

Sometimes you post a question looking for one answer and you get another answer instead. The advantage of a group of others in the craft looking at what you pose is that they have experience, wisdom and knowledge, and sometimes the best answer is not you want A and here is A but that your question itself needs to be challenged and the author set back to a more useful path. You are free to reject it. My job is not to endlessly spin my wheels with each question. Sometimes its to cut through the BS and say what is most helpful.

IMO this question has sifted away too much of whats its after. Like how do i call something blue… well, how about you call it blue. No, i cant call it blue… i dont know where to go, everything is not blue.

Well I don't agree at all.
"How is the feminine side of the psyche when it is all animalistic and savage?"
blue is blue, or not = give birth, many babies, clean the camp site, clean the weapons.
"All animalistic and savage" doesn't fit into that work description. And I have also expressed why the female shouldn't be a warrior, like typical male orcs.

I have looked at lots of images online of female orcs and half orcs. Pinterest gives many interesting ideas, because it somehow links to pictures that resembles or are connected somehow to the image you are currently viewing.
If I instead google for "female orc" and similar, many many pages seems to show that the idea of a female orc is a butch lesbian. Which is not what I am after, "because feminine." It seems to be an idea that many people, also here, has rooted in the mind about female orcs.
Either a butch woman with green skin and tusks, or a "birthing person" or what that new fasionable term is.
What I was asking about was/is something else, to see if there is anyone with a creative mind or who has seen something else.

 

[Fettju]

Just read some Margaret Atwood and be done with it

I don't know english famous writers, so I don't know what you refer to

 

[Fettju]

Does this orc lass, have a waterlogged brain, or is something different?

No, it has a human mind. But "the culture" of the orc, or the behaviour it has that is inherited, but not from it's parents but from the original "wild spirit" archetype of the human unconscious, is very "rooted". The original orc is the elemental spirit of the wild and truly uncivilized side of Man.
As cultures are very fixed in a person, this "culture" is also very fixed in the orc because it was originally what the orc stands for. For it to change, the orc has to be in a different social environment for a long time, and it might even require one or two generations in a new environment for it to change.

the orc to have the most confusing, because it is truly evil

My orcs are just a new thing in the world that adds to the confusion and chaos.

either this fight between good and evil is gone, or it needs to be reinforced

The good in this story is that the village is the last enclave of civilization, as the empire has fallen. The village is the seed for a new empire to rise.
The evil in the story are humans who wanted to restart civilization according to new ideals they had invented.
The orcs are either a weapon let loose by the evil, or a failed last moment intent to save the empire, or something that has always been there, but hidden in the shadows. You yourself will decide the truth about the orc when you read the different scrolls and books that have been written about the orcs, that will be quoted in the story.

not is she alone, because she never is

She is alone in the woodlands where nobody lives if she doesn't go to a human village or to where the male orcs are hanging out at the moment

difference between a human and an orc

The difference is that humans make their own path from the beginning.
The orcs start with a set path, but they could change. Probably not as a people, but individually

sacred feminine

What is that though? Giving birth to many babies?

that is racist

Everything is racist. That is why so many people love fantasy with other "races" than humans, because you can let your racism run free without anyone shadow banning you

 

[Fettju]

From Our Orcs Are Different - TV Tropes :
"Usually have oppressive, patriarchal societies, with females being treated as property (if female orcs are even shown or mentioned)."
A wild woman couldn't stand being property. Even if it meant cooking and cleaning and being pregnant.

 

[Queshire]

I am not sure how much clearer I can make this, but *ahem* Feminine is not limited giving birth, cleaning weapons and cleaning the campsite. It is not limited soft, sensitive, sensual and afraid. You are standing in your own way.

 

[skip.knox]

Being female is indeed not limited to that. There is, however, a stereotype that is exactly that.

If I'm writing a human female, then I have to take into account not only biology but also cultural conventions. Then I can craft exceptions and even create cultural microcosms that blow up the stereotypes.

If I'm writing a non-human, the range of options is nearly infinite (except I have to labor against reader preconceptions about orcs or trolls or elves etc.). One of the pleasures of writing about non-humans, for me anyway, is exactly that I have more options than I do when writing humans. This is especially true in my case because I chose to write alternate history, so I sort of inherit standard-issue humans. (till plenty of room to go against the grain, though!)

Now, if I want to write about non-humans but have the females align with human femininity, then I have special challenges. The first of those is deciding what "femininity" I mean to use as a model. As others have pointed out, it's not like there's just one type. I don't have any advice on what to use. My only advice is to read very widely and for a long time. Sure, I could just grab a few stereotypes and go, the writing equivalent of fast food at a drive-thru. But there are so very many interesting possibilities, it seems a shame to stop there.

 

[pmmg]

I am not sure how much clearer I can make this, but *ahem* Feminine is not limited giving birth, cleaning weapons and cleaning the campsite. It is not limited soft, sensitive, sensual and afraid. You are standing in your own way.

You could add what you think is missing and not just what it isnt.

 

[Finchbearer]

I don't know english famous writers, so I don't know what you refer to

She is Canadian and one of the most well known writers of all time. She wrote The Handmaids Tale and writes in great detail and visceral quality about the experience of being a woman and all it entails.

 

[skip.knox]

She is indeed famous, though if it weren't for various appearances in other media (e.g., Tale), I wouldn't have heard of her either. I read fairly broadly, but I still, after seven decades, have plenty of unexplored rooms in the House of Literature.

 

[pmmg]

Hand maidens tale come up somewhat frequently in writers circles. I read it. I did not share the love for it that others have.

Dont know much about miss Atwood personally. But i am willing to wing it with the understandings i have

 

[Rexenm]

Our set books, were Hand Maidens Tale, Tommorrow When The War Began, All Quiet On The Western Front, and Lord Of The Flies.

 

[pmmg]

Well I don't agree at all.
"How is the feminine side of the psyche when it is all animalistic and savage?"
blue is blue, or not = give birth, many babies, clean the camp site, clean the weapons.
"All animalistic and savage" doesn't fit into that work description. And I have also expressed why the female shouldn't be a warrior, like typical male orcs.

Put this off for a bit, was waiting till I could spend some time parsing the OP'er's comments.

...But, I am back to where I left off. You are asking for something that is self-exclusionary.

How can one be feminine (blue) and wild (not blue) at the same time. Answer: They cant.

If I add the stuff that puts the feminine into play, you will say 'it's not wild'. There is no where to go.

"How is the feminine side of the psyche when it is all animalistic and savage?"

This needs to be adjusted to remove the 'all'. One is not feminine when they are all animalistic and savage. They are wild and savage. Their feminine nature would more likely drive them to stuff that removes the wild. So the question has to allow for stuff that will act to remove the wild. Otherwise, shes just a slightly smaller member of her race operating at survival instinct. When around others, and her femininity may start to gain play, she will look to do things that are more social, and more security building.

If I was writing this, I would have her have only crude tools and living spaces. I'd probably pair her with others. She would be prone to giving and receiving violence, and would be somewhat submissive to a larger male, or group. Deeper aspects, I would have to discover while writing.

I don't think there is any additional magic feminine aspect that needs to be discovered. And I feel certain enough to say that if you remove all the ones anyone would quickly identify in the hope of finding the obscure, the reader will question where the rest of it is.

Below is a list of traits pulled from a quick google search. How much of each can she have and still be wild? She's gonna have to have some social group for it to matter, IMO.

I think it would be helpful to look to other creatures in the wild, and model her after those.

 

[Finchbearer]

They put independent / dependant twice…

Maybe they should put that females have attention to detail…

That list is completely arbitrary, and is relying heavily on stereotypes. You also have to remember that men and women, whether they are orcs or not are all individual.

 

[Rexenm]

I was thinking alone in the yard, and I had an idea that I wanted to portray to myself, when looking at a sparrow. It was standing mightily upon the post, and it seemed to be stifling a laugh. A bird so alone, might be orcish, or consider me so. So I asked myself, which is it? Was I orcish, or was the bird orcish. I guess what I am saying, is it might be gross, but what better purpose than being an orc, if you are an orc. A sparrow or myself might be leaning on the post, but what is funny about an orc?

You might think that an orc had an emotion that portrays braveness in the face of danger, but when you strip it back, maybe they are just a glob of goo. Now what would take you to places that perhaps a lowly orc lass could not go, or take them to the utmost heights, with an individual, it is hard to know. But when you think of evil, you may not be thinking of outright bad, or balancing niceties with good. I applaud your trying to find the human in the orc, but what about the orc in the human?

To take it to extreme, I guess what I am saying, is maybe we all learn about our human side, as we are all orcs, and come to some union, some bond. There is an orc who becomes more orcish, is there a bird that becomes more birdish?

 

[Finchbearer]

OP, if you’re looking for the wilder qualities in the female the I would suggest looking at Women who run with the wolves: