Orc females

[CupofJoe]

This may prove an interesting read...

Of mice and matriarchs: the female-led societies of the animal kingdom

If you think relationships between male and female animals are simple, it’s time to have a rethink.

theconversation.com

 

[pmmg]

They are not apparent though. The only apparent would be: no orc females. With some inventive thought another answer might be there

They are, but you are free to continue as if it is not.

And that is not the only apparent answer. That is a misdirection. There are endless possibilities. They are anything one can imagine. You just need to pick one and go.

 

[Rexenm]

This might give you some inspiration…

 

[TheKillerBs]

They are, but you are free to continue as if it is not.

And that is not the only apparent answer. That is a misdirection. There are endless possibilities. They are anything one can imagine. You just need to pick one and go.

Might I suggest that what is apparent to you is not so to everyone else?

 

[Queshire]

Sure, but this thread has reached seven pages long.

 

[pmmg]

Might I suggest that what is apparent to you is not so to everyone else?

You sure are.

If another batter wants to take a swing at it, go ahead (have you contributed so far?). I think the OP'er has created a question that is trying to be blue and not blue at the same time. He wants things to be feminine, but wants to remove all the stuff that makes femininity matter. With the stuff that matters removed, you are left with only wild. The difference between a wild woman and a wild man, if all other factors are removed, is just physical. One is bigger than the other, or better suited for some encounters. Since these are Orc's of a sort, even that is not a given.

I feel we are just spinning our wheels, and have no place to go but in circles. So...floors open. Post up the next best post and leave the circle.

 

[Queshire]

Eh, I disagree with the assertion that it's removing all the stuff that makes femininity matters, but I'm not seeing a lot of willingness to consider that there's other stuff that makes femininity matters from the OP'er, so it's all a wash still. Of course that's the sort of bullshit that can be expected from me at this point.

 

[pmmg]

Is there an aspect to this that you wish to bring up, but have not?

If OP'er was open in the way that you would like, what would you say?

You accused me of not having interest, and I've been waiting for what you might say. I'd be highly interested in insights or things I might add to a tool box, but I find the OP'er continues to insist focus on the wild, and pushes back against anything that would add a shaping aspect to her, like other people of her group, or children to bear, or doing anything that would lead to a permanent domicile.

Like, take a girl, drop her in the middle of the woods as an infant, give her no connection to anyone else, come back and 20 years, and whats she like. Well, shes not gonna paint her nails and hang up curtains. She's probably going to run a lot, and kill things that are smaller than her, and try to scare off anything bigger. She might have a spot she thinks of as hers... Her most likely female aspect will probably be to find a social group, and if found, she would probably be bad at joining it. The longer she is kept from a social group, the less it will matter whats female.

Women are better at spotting dangerous things to eat than men, so she might have better luck finding which berries are safe to eat.

 

[Rexenm]

Argument over!

 

[pmmg]

I am not sure were where having an argument. Quesh is free to disagree with me. So is everyone else. I respect what she has to say.

I am not sure the disagreement between me and Quesh, which she refers to, is all that big anyway. I say the OP'er has removed all, and she says there is still some left. I mean...sure there is. Even the infant scenario I present above will turn out a little difference for the infant being female than male (assuming they survived at all), but its not enough to make a lot of difference IMO.

But it must be true growing up alone and female, as opposed to alone and male, would have some differences. Men are more built to pound the crap out of things than women. So, they would have to apply different skills to survival. I would expect a male would be more prone to rely on brawn than a female, but most things would fall into the category of both of them could do it, or both of them should avoid it. The range of things one could take but not the other would be small. Women do have advantages men don't in the wild. Color vision, for example. Women can see differences in color men cannot. It would help them to know which things are poisonous and which are not. And I've seen it said that women have a greater tolerance for enduring pain than men. That might have an advantage as well. Also, a generally smaller size might mean they can hide in more places. So, by that alone, there should be something more on the female side of the scale. Course, they also have disadvantages, size, shape and things like menstrual cycles would likely produce those as well.

Not the same as Femininity, but still something to consider when looking at a wild woman in the wild.

The OP'er wrote, that if they were encountered, how would it be obvious they were female? The obvious answer is body shape. But it could also include pitch of voice, estimates of size and weight, and if you are really splitting hairs, perhaps the methods used to avoid or engage. If perhaps they were wearing a leafy burka, so there were no physical hints, i might be able to guess over time by observing their aggressiveness, and social efforts. Course, one answer is, it might not be obvious.

The OP'er seems to be looking for something different from the many things that can be known or inferred. If someone has the answer, or the answer can be tripped upon, another seven pages wont hurt. IMO, if you discard all the stuff that has been posted already, what you are left with is far from the stuff that would be the first clue.

 

[Queshire]

There's been a few recorded instances of feral children in real life if I remember correctly. Not too many, and most of them are old enough that... eh... could be a little fishy.

 

[Queshire]

Aye, not a big disagreement is a fair way to describe it. *shrug*

With the idea of a child growing up alone in the forest I really think that the rigors of survival are high enough that you wouldn't get a lot of statistically significant differences which could be linked to sex rather than circumstance or between individuals.

I mean, to flip it on its head if you toss a professional trained survivalist out in the woods then the differences between what they do would largely come down to degrees instead of doing different stuff. Both would look to secure water, food, shelter and make tools to help with hunting & general survival. Yeah, maybe the guy can move that log where the girl can't, but the priorities and tactics are going to be pretty similar.

I don't see sex based differences really mattering until you get into family unit or tribal unit sized groups which the OP doesn't seem to want.

So to achieve what the OP wants I think that as a writer you have to pretty much go into it acknowledging that you're going to make a hash of things no matter how you handle it, but you've got a choice about what flavor of hash you want.

 

[Rexenm]

Oh I see, so it is a bit of a vicious circle, after all.

 

[Fettju]

water sprites, are more flowing

Water is chaos. And the fringe is also chaos. Refreshment, rebirth, renewal, new ideas, etc, come from the fringe/water.

 

[Fettju]

You just need to pick one and go

...well...that is not how I work. It needs to be good, it's like a puzzle or a temple that needs be built with internal harmony.
If people just pick an idea and go, then there is no reason to post anything here, is it?

 

[Fettju]

but wants to remove all the stuff that makes femininity matter

Is why I asked here. To see if there were anyone with creative ideas about femininity NOT the very basic standard "giving birth, rearing children." A forum of fantasy writers after all, no? But apparently. Not.

The female gollum ideas was good though. Also the document about primates.

 

[Queshire]

Look, bub, we're not to blame if you can't consider femininity beyond that.

 

[Fettju]

"Group play is also striking in house sparrows. This begins with two to eight males loudly pursuing a female. Most often in dense vegetation the female is surrounded by the males and these alternately try to peck the female in the cloacal region and copulate. Everyone chatters excitedly and at this point leaves all caution. As a rule, copulation does not occur. The male that pairs with the female also participates and remains in the female's vicinity until the end. The significance of the group stage is not known."
Sparrow-orcs? Might be the reason orc females don't knit and cook and sweep the floor of the orc camp?

 

[Fettju]

if you can't consider femininity beyond that.

If I can't???!! I am the one asking for something beyond that

 

[Fettju]

"Group play is also striking in house sparrows. This begins with two to eight males loudly pursuing a female. Most often in dense vegetation the female is surrounded by the males and these alternately try to peck the female in the cloacal region and copulate. Everyone chatters excitedly and at this point leaves all caution. As a rule, copulation does not occur. The male that pairs with the female also participates and remains in the female's vicinity until the end. The significance of the group stage is not known."
Sparrow-orcs? Might be the reason orc females don't knit and cook and sweep the floor of the orc camp?

In colony-breeding pairs, males are interested in more frequent copulation to ensure their own paternity. However, this behavior and the male's guarding of the female is only partially effective. In 8 to 19% of cases, extra-pair copulations have been demonstrated.