Protagonist strenght poll

[Dankolisic]

Thinking, planning, writing...got me questioning.

In anime usually the protagonist is unbelievably strong, or he/she is not.
I kinda like it when the protagonist finds his great power hidden beneath, revealed in the right time(sometimes a second too late), but sometimes the story isn't like that.
In fantasy, protagonist usually rely on friends, associates or ex machina to escape or win in the situation. Sometimes they are alone.

So, I decided to make a poll. I would like you lot to participate in this poll, just to see what are your preferred opinions. Please think of this as a straightforward poll with no additional objectives( like for instance if you choose A: the protagonist is unusually powerful, I would very much like if you didn't add something like "Is he strong from the beginning, what are the specified abilities, who are the antagonists, are there others like him and so on"). Of course you can, but I would like if you could keep it simple ; choose a preferred number, then explain why you like that option( you can even choose mupltiple numbers, but explain them all briefly)

Many thanks

P.S. I am talking about pure physical strength, but this could include magical abilities if the antagonist is using the same skillset too. I am not talking about diplomatic or charisma or intelligence levels here, although these traits can be put in the "other skills" section if the answer is B.

Here is the poll:

What is your preferred protagonist strength?

A. The protagonist is unbelievably strong

B. The protagonist is weak, but relies on other skills

C. The protagonist is balanced with the world

D. The protagonist is weak in opposition to the world around him

E. The protagonist is strong in opposition to the world around him, but not the strongest

F. The protagonist manages to balance the strength and other skills at the same level

For instance, I do like the A, but in my novel the protagonist is E.

What are you opinions?

 

[pmmg]

What does, 'in addition to the world around them' mean? I take that to mean, they are weak and don't have other skills to make up for it.

My MC is a D. They are physically weak, and tend to operate knowing most everyone else is stronger. They are not debilitated by it, just not as physically capable.

I don't know what I prefer. I think I just like people to be in the category of likely for their time, place and circumstance. I suppose that is a C.


There are, of course, many ways to be strong. While one may not win too many physical contests, head strong and determined makes up for a lot.


One thing I don't like, almost anytime I see it, is mentally/emotionally weak males, and weak people in general.

 

[Dankolisic]

What does, 'in addition to the world around them' mean? I take that to mean, they are weak and don't have other skills to make up for it.

My MC is a D. They are physically weak, and tend to operate knowing most everyone else is stronger. They are not debilitated by it, just not as physically capable.

I don't know what I prefer. I think I just like people to be in the category of likely for their time, place and circumstance. I suppose that is a C.


There are, of course, many ways to be strong. While one may not win too many physical contests, head strong and determined makes up for a lot.


One thing I don't like, almost anytime I see it, is mentally/emotionally weak males, and weak people in general.

Sorry, I changed the sentences, now it says "in opposition" not "in addition" anymore. It means that the world around them, mainly other characters, antagonists or other people have a similar stance( example: in LOTR, Frodo is weak compared to even the most low level orcs, and he would win in a straight arena fight just by pure luck)

think of is as something like:

Would you like Dragonball if Goku was the same strength as others?
Or would you like Harry Potter if he single handedly defeats all obstacles on his path?
Or if Mort from Terry Pratchett's Discworld destroys everything on his path?

I am of course, thinking of your MC in your books/novels, but would just be satisfied with a general opinion about other books/movies/anime you like.

 

[Devor]

How strong my characters are in a fight isn't really part of the lens I see my story through. Or rather, insomuch as it is, I'd say it's more like they're level eight out of eight - max level, when that doesn't mean quite that much. They're tough and they've been through it as much as the next guy, but I'm not writing a Shonen anime and its ever-increasing power levels. More combat power isn't what they need and isn't what they're after.

I enjoy Shonen well enough, but there are definitely times when "the power is within you" can be deus ex machina. "But how can you have another form?! You were already in your final form!"

 

[Finchbearer]

I feel like your question OP is coming from the place of anime and power levels, and is by and large quite a masculine thing - not saying others cannot be interested, it comes down to personal taste, but it’s not ever really what I look for when writing a character, whether they are a protagonist or not. It’s not really what I enjoy reading about either.

‘Strength’ can be measured in many varying forms, and as far as a good character arc goes, starting from a place of weakness can be a good thing.

Arguably, psychological strength of mind is a more foundational form of strength, because if you’re going to have a warrior go out onto their first battlefield, you’ll want them to be able to deal with that mentally just as much as physically, or even more so.

What makes someone ‘weak’ too? Some people are more predisposed to having mental health issues, or conversely may be more predisposed to not having enough mental strength to deal with what is put in front of them. That doesn’t make someone weaker than anyone else, that just makes them human, or mortal.

Gender matters too. You can absolutely have a female warrior, but she is likely to be in the minority of her sex. The Norse Valkyries for example were thought to be in the minority, and were thought to have been women who were physically of a similar build to their male counterparts, but the legend of the Valkyries goes down infamously just because they were a departure from the norm.

In my main story I have a long established warrior culture, where men prove themselves from a young age. They’re conditioned and trained from childhood to become fighting machines. That’s a lot of pressure on a boy, especially if he’s not really naturally predisposed to do that sort of thing. So I have male characters that become very good warriors, and I have one main character who was far better at scholarly pursuits than fighting. I do not pitch him at any weaker than the other males around him, but he is chastised for not having those warrior credentials.

As for my female characters, strength is measured very differently, or maybe I should say it’s not measured at all because it’s not generally a thing women tend to do to each other. My female characters are challenged both mentally and physically, though they present as having different strengths. One for example is more practically minded, and will conform to society to make a difference in her world, whereas the other constantly rebels and pushes against it.

Anyway, I know I have been annoying by not complying to your request, but hey, maybe that’s my strength, or is it a weakness?

 

[Finchbearer]

One thing I don't like, almost anytime I see it, is mentally/emotionally weak males, and weak people in general.

why ever not?

 

[Dankolisic]

I feel like your question OP is coming from the place of anime and power levels, and is by and large quite a masculine thing - not saying others cannot be interested, it comes down to personal taste, but it’s not ever really what I look for when writing a character, whether they are a protagonist or not. It’s not really what I enjoy reading about either.

‘Strength’ can be measured in many varying forms, and as far as a good character arc goes, starting from a place of weakness can be a good thing.

Arguably, psychological strength of mind is a more foundational form of strength, because if you’re going to have a warrior go out onto their first battlefield, you’ll want them to be able to deal with that mentally just as much as physically, or even more so.

What makes someone ‘weak’ too? Some people are more predisposed to having mental health issues, or conversely may be more predisposed to not having enough mental strength to deal with what is put in front of them. That doesn’t make someone weaker than anyone else, that just makes them human, or mortal.

Gender matters too. You can absolutely have a female warrior, but she is likely to be in the minority of her sex. The Norse Valkyries for example were thought to be in the minority, and were thought to have been women who were physically of a similar build to their male counterparts, but the legend of the Valkyries goes down infamously just because they were a departure from the norm.

In my main story I have a long established warrior culture, where men prove themselves from a young age. They’re conditioned and trained from childhood to become fighting machines. That’s a lot of pressure on a boy, especially if he’s not really naturally predisposed to do that sort of thing. So I have male characters that become very good warriors, and I have one main character who was far better at scholarly pursuits than fighting. I do not pitch him at any weaker than the other males around him, but he is chastised for not having those warrior credentials.

As for my female characters, strength is measured very differently, or maybe I should say it’s not measured at all because it’s not generally a thing women tend to do to each other. My female characters are challenged both mentally and physically, though they present as having different strengths. One for example is more practically minded, and will conform to society to make a difference in her world, whereas the other constantly rebels and pushes against it.

Anyway, I know I have been annoying by not complying to your request, but hey, maybe that’s my strength, or is it a weakness?

Yes you are right, it is a purely masculine/strength physical thing i am posting of.

The characters in my book are 5 young boys and 1 girl that are going through a warrior path that every kid must complete in order to become full pledged warriors. According tp the genetics and lore of the world the should be better and stronger than other kids(and adults later) due to their heritage where the descendants of the first warriors are stronger than others. By stronger I mean their "special abilities" are more controlled and fiercer than others, and the path os complicated. The abilities vary, there are increased strength, speed, targeting, camouflage, shield and pierce, and each one of them have only one and they can use it but it costs stamina(they run out of breath if they use them a lot. There said, my MC has the increased speed, and he must learn how to use that to his advantage.

Not complying to my request but still debating the topic is still a strength

Also, forgot to say that the world they know is a warrior tribal culture where only the strongest are dominating, it is also a question of nature especially in the later books where the culture will change after the reveal of the southern empire expansion.

 

[Dankolisic]

why ever not?

Probably because classic storytelling revolves around the protagonist fighting his demons and overcoming them.

I wrote a novel way back about a warrior commander who mislead his troops and made mistakes and in the end turns to cowardice and escapes his punishment like that. I was so happy to write a character that isnt a usual MC, all good and virtuous, but everyone who read it said they did not like it because of the end...

 

[Finchbearer]

It sounds interesting. And don’t get me wrong, I enjoy reading scenes where we have characters training to become more proficient in their physical abilities to defend themselves or to fight, such as seeing someone get themselves out of a sticky situation, or learning to wield a dagger or sword or use their magical abilities to their full effect, it just all needs to be buttressed by solid character arcs to be a. Believable within the context and b. Readable.

 

[Dankolisic]

It sounds interesting. And don’t get me wrong, I enjoy reading scenes where we have characters training to become more proficient in their physical abilities to defend themselves or to fight, such as seeing someone get themselves out of a sticky situation, or learning to wield a dagger or sword or use their magical abilities to their full effect, it just all needs to be buttressed by solid character arcs to be a. Believable within the context and b. Readable.

that is true, and I also like that, but also don't you think that the classic protagonist thing is sort of, i dunno, boring? the protagonists are always the best and pure good and they thrive in the end with a happy ending where they defeated the evil and lived in ideal condition until another evil came. Thats classic storytelling, right? With no other premises but to "live a good peaceful and quiet life". That's not always boring, but it sound like every other classic storytelling book, and I really don't want to have another Goku. I would like something more challenging.

I like the premise of the MC being just "human", if he gets in a position of power, even if his intention are good, after a while they succumb to ego, corruption, etc.

Another novel I wrote back in the highschool day was called Dark Heart (sort of a final fantasy world, like super high fantasy) where the protagonist was a genuinely good magical warrior guy, searching for his long abducted brother. Through the story, he turns to the "dark side", first unknowingly then deliberately. In the end, he becomes evil, and has a reason for every one his doings.

In this book, I mean in the later ones, the MC will be in charge of power. First he will be town chief, and later he should become the imperial general, feared by all. With that comes a lot of traits, I presume.

 

[Finchbearer]

I agree that a character arc does not need to be linear. But if it is, then that needs to make sense to the story that is being told.

What I find boring is writers afraid to give their characters real flaws.

Being able to wield a sword (I imagine, I’ve never done it but I’d love to give it a go) takes a long time and a lot of practice. It’s not just about being physically able to fight for a long period of time either is it? It’s about tactics, lightness of foot and quick reactions, knowing when to push through and spend all your energy and when to hold back and read the enemy, predicting their next five moves. In real world wars there’s a lot of on foot physical fighting, but there’s also an equal amount of covert intelligence going on in the background so to speak. Any good warrior / soldier needs good problem solving intelligence.

What I gravitate more to in general are what could be described as morally grey characters, who are essentially more true to life.

I have what could be described as a villain intent on doing destructive things that meet his own needs, who has both strengths and weaknesses, but the challenge I find with him is that I want to show moments of redemption, and moments of tenderness where you see his humanity, but then make it so the reader fears his next move. He’s a snake in the grass and needs to come across as such.

With my male character who does not have much physical prowess as a warrior, he naturally gravitates towards a more scholarly path. His magical abilities combined with his intellect means he is able to cast complex spells and memorise long incantations. He doesn’t need to wield a sword. Those are his major strengths in the absence of warrior-hood, but there’s also a good deal of over-compensation too. He also has many flaws.

My female characters conversely have to constantly push up against a slew of oppressive societal factors along with dealing with their own strengths and weaknesses, which I also see as being more true to life. It’s what women do every day. Multitask

 

[Dankolisic]

I agree that a character arc does not need to be linear. But if it is, then that needs to make sense to the story that is being told.

What I find boring is writers afraid to give their characters real flaws.

Being able to wield a sword (I imagine, I’ve never done it but I’d love to give it a go) takes a long time and a lot of practice. It’s not just about being physically able to fight for a long period of time either is it? It’s about tactics, lightness of foot and quick reactions, knowing when to push through and spend all your energy and when to hold back and read the enemy, predicting their next five moves. In real world wars there’s a lot of on foot physical fighting, but there’s also an equal amount of covert intelligence going on in the background so to speak. Any good warrior / soldier needs good problem solving intelligence.

What I gravitate more to in general are what could be described as morally grey characters, who are essentially more true to life.

I have what could be described as a villain intent on doing destructive things that meet his own needs, who has both strengths and weaknesses, but the challenge I find with him is that I want to show moments of redemption, and moments of tenderness where you see his humanity, but then make it so the reader fears his next move. He’s a snake in the grass and needs to come across as such.

With my male character who does not have much physical prowess as a warrior, he naturally gravitates towards a more scholarly path. His magical abilities combined with his intellect means he is able to cast complex spells and memorise long incantations. He doesn’t need to wield a sword. Those are his major strengths in the absence of warrior-hood, but there’s also a good deal of over-compensation too. He also has many flaws.

My female characters conversely have to constantly push up against a slew of oppressive societal factors along with dealing with their own strengths and weaknesses, which I also see as being more true to life. It’s what women do every day. Multitask

That sound very interesting with your characters.

The six main characters in my book have flaws, as well as traits(despite the special abilities)

Vehren has a superiority complex, he wants to be better than his father and brother, and also has a problem when someone contradicts him(he is the leader of the group), but is strict and fair and will think twice when someone proposes something(even if he does not like it).
Banut is considered the loud one. He is strong, and relies on strength and intimidation when pressing his ideals, he is stubborn and fierce, quick to lose his temper. But he won't snitch to Vehren if he saw some of his companions sleep on the guard duty but will send them to bed and switch. He also lacks some intelligence, and therefore cannot comprehend something new that contradicts his beliefs, even with sturdy evidence. He thinks he should be the group leader, and has a tough time accepting that he is not.
Enevina is the muscle of the group. In terms of pure physical strength, she is the strongest (and the largest) among them. Usually quiet, she is good at following orders, but has a spite against the way of life they live.
Vukan is the group scout. He is the shortest, and he is very cheerful. What he lacks is the ability of not knowing when to speak or when to keep his mouth shut, and often gets them into trouble for his fast tongue.
Revenbor is tall, but skinny. He is reserved, and talks rarely. When he does, his words are wise. He is divided between their way of life and the new way of life his father is making, and so is battling inside.
Aeliz has an unfortunate trait of perspicacious. While it is relevant to the story, it often brings them into trouble. He questions everything and wants answers to things, even going that far to disobey orders, as long as it gives him the satisfaction of knowing the truth. He wants to find the truth about his missing father, and will stop at nothing to find out.

These are traits and flaws that they have at the age of 14-16 frosts, later they will grow and learn(or not) from their mistakes and experiences.

 

[Nighty_Knight]

All depends on the story you are telling. Typically I prefer using E. But none of those are wrong.

 

[pmmg]

why ever not?

I think I will chalk it up to personal preference.

Probably because classic storytelling revolves around the protagonist fighting his demons and overcoming them.

Not even close.

I generally don't like weak characters because they occupy a place of continuing frustration, and sometimes a realm of me going BS fairly often. When people have all they need but still wont, I run out of patience for them. When other characters cater to it or allow it, I start thinking...nope... I would dump them.

In particular, I don't like weak men. because I find their 'unmanliness' off-putting in addition to the frustration I feel. You dont got to be strong, you dont have to win, you dont have to like it, but when something needs to be done, and you are whining yourself out of doing it.... It is almost like you are an anti-male. And, as a man, I am wired to reject it. I dont mind it as much in women, as the expectation on women is slightly different, but....I can hate it there too.

Do I need to put in the caveats? Yes, the world has these people in it, and they are free game for stories. Yes, I mean some and not all. Yes, there are times I will accept them, its just not often. And yes, everyone has moments of weakness and strength. And yes, strength and weakness means many things.

(And for Finch, people who recognize their own weaknesses and strengths, and play to their strengths are not of this type. If you are more of a thinker than a brute, you might choose a different way to prevail, which would lose no respect from me.)

There is a good example of this I stumbled into recently.

The vikings has Ivar the Boneless, and Vitzeck. Ivar barely has use of his legs. By all measures, he is physically incapable. But...that dude was frightening to many, and had a lot of personal power in spite of his disability. Vitzeck, on the other hand, had all the advantages, but was weak in just about every way. Whiny, hesitating, letting bad things happen around him. While I personally liked neither of these characters, I'd of left Vitzeck somewhere to die, cause I am not putting my life in his hands.

If you have the role, and the capability, regardless of who you are, and you cant handle the stuff you need to handle, I find I don't have much patience for it, and I don't care to watch it.

If the vikings had given me a whole show on Vitzeck, I have stopped watching. Fortunately, he was one of many.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

I don't think strength even has the slightest bearing on why I like a protagonist. I don't like Potter, Goku makes me say, "who the hell is that?" until I see Dragonball and instinctively chortle a bit like Beavis and Butthead; Discworld never interested me. However, none of those things have anything to do with their strength.

 

[Gallio]

I don't know about 'preferred'. I can only answer for the novel I'm working on at present. At the beginning of the book, my magician is an E in terms of power -- he can perform certain kinds of enchantment, but still has a long way to go in terms of what he needs to learn.
In terms of physical ability, he is an accomplished swordsman; but still an E. This goes for is physical strength too.
In terms of looks, he's an A, and he uses this to manipulate others.

 

[Queshire]

Huh, I'm surprised that the forum doesn't have a built in way to do polls. Most forums do in my experience.

Generally the characters I like to write are rather accomplished when it comes to combat, or they reach that point quickly. I like playing around with weird, unique magic powers similar to what you get with Devil Fruit in One Piece or Zanpakuto in BLEACH, and I find there's generally more room to do that when the characters are skilled enough that mundane combat isn't that big of a deal. For example, if someone tries to mug one of my characters in a dark alley then things are going to go bad for the mugger unless they have something more impressive than a knife on their side.

That said, there's plenty of other people at the characters' level or archmages which could crush them easily.