Should You Write Practice Novels?

[Incanus]

Great question. I've been contemplating this issue for a while now. I'm very happy to see what others with more experience under thier belts have to say about this. I'm right now leaning towards using this approach, whatever terms may apply ('practice novel', 'simpler novel'). I'm trying to be smart about this.

I've got the BIG idea--it's large, it's complex, it's pretty original. But I've never completed a novel before, only several bads starts. I did finish a novella, even though I realized it was doomed early on, I saw it through, just to complete something(it's terrible). The big idea needs far, far more skill and experience than I currently have. I'm not even sure at this point if its one book, or a few. Even then, it suggests sequels, or a series of sequels.

So, what I have in mind, then, is to take on a simpler, smaller novel idea--an average sized novel--and set it in the same world as the first idea; probably during a different era, or otherwise far removed in time. I think this way, I could sort of address the two 'sides' of this issue reasonably: I could work on a novel that is more 'do-able', and that I cared about, and was still 'publishable' (one can hope), but if it flops, the big idea will still be there, more or less undamaged.

In the meantime, while I ponder all this, I will try to dash out a batch of short-stories.

Does this sound like a decent approach? A reasonable plan?

 

[Caged Maiden]

So, I'm okay with the word "practice novel". I would have to call my stack of manuscripts just that. However, when I was writing them, I didn't see it as such. I mean, you don't tell a minor league ball player his work is "practice", the same as you don't tell your T-ball kid he sucks at baseball. he's doing the best he can. But he isn't ready for the big leagues. Right?

I think it's important for writers to know their strengths and weaknesses. As soon as I learned my manuscripts stunk, I wanted to know WHY. Turns out my plots are weak. I mean, not even in the realm of a long Island Iced Tea. More like iced tea with six spoons of sugar and a little pink umbrella. Yeah, I sucked at plots. And probably still do. but now, I have a network. When I have a hard time connecting the dots, I ask for help. I don't skip over the sticky bits and ignore them, I send them to critters to get torn open, and I learn what to do from others with stronger plotting ability. And in return, every place I think a romance cold be more authentic, an argument could be better dialogued, I leave my "What I wold do's" for my crit partners. I'm not writing alone anymore. I have friends. Good friends. With their head firmly upon their shoulders where mine slides off a bit.

With only myself as a judge, I couldn't possibly have seen the problems. And it's only through four years of hard work, that I've built not only my skills, but those relationships to a point where work becomes easier. Not EASY, EASIER. 3k word days come whenever I sit down for a few hours. In fact, I had a 4k word day yesterday. And you know what? All those words were keepers. No looking at majorly revamping in the future. No "meh, good enough". Nope, I had a good day yesterday. And it's because of all the practice I've done. I have some cutting to do for sure, but that's an easy edit.

Practice is writing. It's critiquing. It's having critiques and writing outlines and writing summaries and writing Query Letters. It all counts, everything that gets you to look harder at your work and see it with eyes wider open.

No time writing is wasted, but I think it's foolish to think your one big idea is going to get you from the beginning of the journey to the end. Here's my reasoning:

Short stories have a very different goal than novels. One, they focus on quick narrative. Leanness counts when you have a 5k word limit. They have a beginning, middle and ending that are all important. No time to enter scenes for personal amusement. It's a great way to get right into a character and get to business. Novels sometimes meander because you have the luxury. Not so with a short story.

Novels are a great way to explore complexity. You can pants them or outline them, you can invent magics or races or whole worlds of rich culture. They can be perfect opportunities to create change and examine the depth and breadth of personalities, overlapping goals, opposing goals, etc.

When undertaking writing, I don't think anyone sets off saying, "I'll just plug some crap on the page and call it good."

Writers have stories to tell and draw from their own unique lives, experiences, and DESIRES. If I want the hero to end up with the girl, I just MAKE IT HAPPEN! However, story-telling is more complex. To create a tale other people will enjoy, a writer must work hard to connect, create a pace that's desirable, and most of all entertain.

When writing for my own amusement, I didn't have to please others. And that one simple item, removed from the equation, made me productive, happy, confident, and positive. It's hard to feel that way when you send those weak manuscripts through a crit group. It doesn't score high and then the real work begins...figuring out how to turn a ground ball into a home run.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

I have a golf instructor who likes to say, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes habit. Perfect practice makes perfect." Meaning that unless you go into something with the notion that you are going to give it the ole college try you are only hurting yourself because you make bad mechanics into a bad habit. As applied to novels, it seems that one should always, always, always go in with the idea that this novel is getting published dadgummit. Which, includes at least for me, one or two drafts before dropping the whole thing. The editing process, I feel, is more educational that just sitting down and writing a story. Therefore, I say every novel's a practice novel. Just like every game of sports or every round of golf is a type of practice. Or, in other words, a novel is another wonderful learning experience.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I'm getting the feeling that this thread is getting hung up on the word practice and the various negative associations it may or may not have.
Sure, it's the word that was used, so I guess it's natural that it comes into focus, but I'm not entirely sure that was the original intent of the thread - or maybe it's me getting it wrong?

Maybe ask the question like this instead?
Should you dive into the deep end first or should you test the waters in the shallow end first?
I guess both approaches have merit.
Jumping into the deep end forces you to learn to swim or you'll drown - it's all or nothing.
Wading in through the shallow end means you'll have more time to test the waters and figure out what you're doing in relative safety. If you keep at it, you'll eventually end up swimming in deep waters, but you might just as well end up splashing around in the shallows thinking you're actually swimming when you're not.

Different methods may work differently for different people.
For me though, starting in the shallow end and striving to get further and further into the deep end has worked great so far. I've been seeking help and gone out of my way to try and learn and improve and try out different things and I've done it with what I originally thought was a simple and manageable project.

I don't feel that referring to my WiP as a practice novel diminishes its value. I started it with the intent of learning what creating a novel is like: writing, editing, publishing, marketing - the works. The story itself wasn't important to me when I started out, but that doesn't mean I wasn't going to try to make it the best I could. It may not work for you - but so far, it's worked great for me.

 

[Svrtnsse]

So, what I have in mind, then, is to take on a simpler, smaller novel idea--an average sized novel--and set it in the same world as the first idea; probably during a different era, or otherwise far removed in time. I think this way, I could sort of address the two 'sides' of this issue reasonably: I could work on a novel that is more 'do-able', and that I cared about, and was still 'publishable' (one can hope), but if it flops, the big idea will still be there, more or less undamaged.

This is almost exactly what I'm doing.
I didn't really care about the story itself when I started it, but that's changed as a consequence of writing it.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I agree. I think the point is that some people jump into the deep end and don't realize how deep it is. Or that there's a current that's ready to drag you under (the industry standard). It's all well and good to think "hey, I've got a story I want to tell and I think other people will like it too". But getting that first story whipped into professional shape... well, it's a long road. It isn't something to be lightly undertaken if that's your goal. My goal in writing was to amuse myself. I accomplished that goal. I wrote my million words, never worrying anyone else was going to read them. In fact, poor Phil has seen more of them than anyone else (Thanks a bunch, buddy. You rock more than I can say!)

Are the novels useless? Well... that depends. Do I feel like doing the major rewrites that it'll take to make them palatable? That's on me. But they aren't the standard required to publish, self or traditional. I wouldn't want the world to see my name on those. That means they served their purpose, learning, practice, call it what you want. I learned from them, got better, and have moved on. While I'd never advocate throwing old work out if one isn't inclined to purge, I think every year, a writer should probably look back on older work and say, "hm... I'm way better now", even if those old stories are fairly good. I have stories I wrote last year for challenges or whatever, and I still like them. But I'm better now. But if I hadn't written those stories and experimented with words, POV, story-telling, tone, etc. I wouldn't have gotten better. It's all "practice" and the more of it you do and the more you try to improve, the better you get.

Challenges allow me to not be emotionally invested in what I'm writing. I don't give a fig about the character. They are a means to an end for me (writing a compelling/ amusing short story in two days, usually). The problem comes in (and I've seen this dozens of times) when a writer has very few actual writing skills (and I'm not on any sort of horse, high or otherwise) and they bite off more than they can realistically chew. Few people pace their journey appropriately in the beginning. Most of us saw a movie and thought we could do it one step better, or we had a vision for a world we were dying to write in.

Me? My goals were simple. Escape from my day and night and all weekend job of selling cars. And make a couple bad things happen to some characters named for my cutthroat coworkers. Yeah, I was 21, sue me. NO don't. Any resemblance to people, imaginary or real, is coincidental. haha.

Anyways, the goal is what's out of scope for most new novelists. My dog isn't a search and rescue dog just because he's a German Shepherd. I'm not a competent novelist because I worked for my high school newspaper, wrote a couple articles for MS and have a book of cute poems I wrote in Middle School.

It's hard work. It's sweat, tears, and isolating if you let it be. Friends help a lot. Critiques help a lot. I rewrote the beginning of my WIP four times. Not edited, REWROTE. The last one (which I turned into a post, Editing or why we leave this for last ) I thought I had the magic combination to appease all my betas. But then I sent it to another published novelist and he wrote me back, saying "It's clear you don't know how to begin a novel". WHA? You need thick skin and good ears and a lot of tenacity to do this right. I think I have all three now, but they took time to form over the past four years. (I just rewrote that first chapter AGAIN, BTW)

Some people want to write what they want and self-publish when they're done, and that's one in the bag and onto the next. I occasionally think, "eew, that wasn't quite ready." But that's ME. I have betas who continue to tell me I'm not ready, so I've had to make the tough decision that I'm just not good at editing right now. Not good enough. I'm sending my work to a professional editor, and I'm going to pay a lot of money for what work I can't seem to get right myself.

Everyone has to make those choices for themselves when they come to it. I think biting off more than you can chew is a mistake, but it's hard not to do, because in the beginning, you lack the experience to properly judge. Honestly, I've seen more than one writer on this site I've popped in with a chat and said, "I just want to tell you how much I enjoyed your challenge story" and they reply that they only started writing six months earlier. I mean... Part of me wants to strangle them because they're brilliant with no experience, and part of me is just overjoyed someone found the keys to success so much easier than I have.

It's a road and for some, it's rockier than others, but the surest way to encourage a new writer to stick with it, is to advise them to start a little smaller than what they think they can handle. Because, so often stories expand in content and complexity as we write them, and if you get hung up on your first work, you're likely to not move on and try again after something crushes your spirit. And by crush your spirit, I mean any or all of: Agents rejecting it over and over, critiques coming back with harsh comments, realizing you can't MAKE yourself finish the travesty that started as a wonderful idea, etc. It's all hard to take for some folks and others, water off a duck's back. Each person has to assess their needs, goals, and tenacity. They all should try, however. Try their damndest, whatever the goal or outcome.

 

[Philip Overby]

I'm getting the feeling that this thread is getting hung up on the word practice and the various negative associations it may or may not have.
Sure, it's the word that was used, so I guess it's natural that it comes into focus, but I'm not entirely sure that was the original intent of the thread - or maybe it's me getting it wrong?

Maybe ask the question like this instead?
Should you dive into the deep end first or should you test the waters in the shallow end first?
I guess both approaches have merit.
Jumping into the deep end forces you to learn to swim or you'll drown - it's all or nothing.
Wading in through the shallow end means you'll have more time to test the waters and figure out what you're doing in relative safety. If you keep at it, you'll eventually end up swimming in deep waters, but you might just as well end up splashing around in the shallows thinking you're actually swimming when you're not.

Different methods may work differently for different people.
For me though, starting in the shallow end and striving to get further and further into the deep end has worked great so far. I've been seeking help and gone out of my way to try and learn and improve and try out different things and I've done it with what I originally thought was a simple and manageable project.

I don't feel that referring to my WiP as a practice novel diminishes its value. I started it with the intent of learning what creating a novel is like: writing, editing, publishing, marketing - the works. The story itself wasn't important to me when I started out, but that doesn't mean I wasn't going to try to make it the best I could. It may not work for you - but so far, it's worked great for me.

I believe I should have went with the term "simpler novel" to start out. Practice seems to come across like it's pointless or useless, even though I don't think so. There is a ton of stuff I write just for fun. You can go peruse the Challenges section for that. I don't believe most of the things I've written in the Challenges section are meant to be published. They're just exercises I'm doing to test out characters, ideas, and such. It's kind of like me publicly doodling.

I like Caged Maiden's approach to this idea. When she was writing her novels, she certainly didn't see them as practice novels. She did her best to make the coolest novels should could make them. However, in retrospect, she learned what to do and what not to do through those novels. May some of them see the light of day in the future? Certainly, but maybe not in the original incarnation.

I guess some of the perception is that every thing written should be polished and published? Or at least attempted to do so? I like the idea of this, but it hasn't been my reality (until recently). I just hope no one reads this thread and thinks I'm advocating writing "throw away" novels. My main idea was just don't try something so ambitious right out the gate as you're more than likely going to get stuck like hundreds of other writers before you. Like me.

 

[Incanus]

I guess some of the perception is that every thing written should be polished and published? Or at least attempted to do so? I like the idea of this, but it hasn't been my reality (until recently). I just hope no one reads this thread and thinks I'm advocating writing "throw away" novels. My main idea was just don't try something so ambitious right out the gate as you're more than likely going to get stuck like hundreds of other writers before you. Like me.

Exactly. Should I end up taking this approach, I have absolutely no intention of working on a 'throw-away'. I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm not in love with the idea, I'm just not going to work on it. I will only work on this 'easier, stepping-stone' novel if I can get the main ideas, characters, setting, and plot standing up; and all appropriate to the scope. I've got to be happy with it if I'm to spend time and energy on it.

Forget the terminology used in discussing this topic, just look at the concept behind it. In this discussion, there have been a number of cautionary tales told. Aspiring writers took on projects that were eventually deemed too ambitious. My current situation seems to have a lot in common with where they were. I value the wisdom that they have chosen to impart. I'm still debating all this in my head. I really, really, really, really want to get to work on the main story in big way. But I want to give it the best chance I can possibly give it.

Anyway, off to go work on my latest short story. . .

 

[Incanus]

Apologies to anyone not interested--but I'm going to keep this thread alive until I've made my decision.

As of today, I'm right on the fence with this. I can't make up my mind.

So, the next step: a pros and cons list!

--trying a 'practice/warm-up/simpler' novel--

PROS:

-build up of skills

-experience seeing a long story all the way through the process

-A greater chance of completion/lesser chance of being overwhelmed


CONS:

-the existing plan may grow stale/may loose momentum working on the main idea while spending a year or three doing the practice novel

-will take longer overall

-the idea that the 'golden' idea is more loved/the practice novel is somehow a 'lesser' work


I'm certain I'm missing at least one or two things on either side--this is just the 'first draft'. And then there's the fact that I'm really, really slow. To me, that belongs on both sides, or neither. Being slow means a practice novel will take a lot of time. It could also mean that if I'm careful enough, I may avoid most of the pitfalls of taking on the larger work.

Does anyone have anything to add to either list?

 

[Steerpike]

It seems like by default many authors previously wrote practice novels without every realizing they were doing so at the time. You hear a lot of traditionally-published authors talk about how many novels they wrote before one finally got accepted and published. Maybe because the first one that got accepted was the only one worth a damn. With self-publishing, all those crappy practice novels end up on Amazon

 

[Mythopoet]

All novels are practice novels. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make money from them if they're good.

 

[Steerpike]

All novels are practice novels. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make money from them if they're good.

Quite true. The question is whether the author can or will take the time to make that determination, or just figure "hey, I finished a novel" and put it up for sale. I've seen plenty of instances of the latter, and some nice surprises that were quite good.

 

[Philip Overby]

It seems like by default many authors previously wrote practice novels without every realizing they were doing so at the time. You hear a lot of traditionally-published authors talk about how many novels they wrote before one finally got accepted and published. Maybe because the first one that got accepted was the only one worth a damn. With self-publishing, all those crappy practice novels end up on Amazon

That's kind of what I was thinking about when I started this thread. Are some writers just putting out a series or something overtly complicated right out of the gate because of the ease of self-publishing? Even though I haven't decided what I want to do with my first completed novel, I know I don't want it to be too confusing for readers because it's not ready for prime time so to speak. I find that sometimes what I think are really cool ideas may completely miss the boat. I do generally think that great series can come from a smaller idea first (The Hobbit--->Lord of the Rings).

I also think it's a perfectly good idea to try to get every novel out there in the world. Once you start writing it, it should ultimately be your goal for it to see the light of day. However, if it's not ready or it's a jumbled mess, then it's best to hold off on it and see how you can put your best foot forward. As a debut author, you really want to put out something that's representative of you and what you hope to put out in the future.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I'll tackle the cons, as I'm all for the idea of starting out with a simpler smaller project (formerly referred to as practice novel).

-the existing plan may grow stale/may loose momentum working on the main idea while spending a year or three doing the practice novel

Yes. It could happen. Two things:
1. Ideas are cheap. You'll come up with new ones. My position is that it's not the idea that matters, but what you do with it.
2. If your original idea grows old and stale, was it really such a good idea in the first place? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. It's really hard to tell. Most writers will get to the point where they think that their idea and their novel and everything they've ever done is rubbish. It's just one of those things. It happens to everyone.
If you lose the passion for the original idea, pick it apart and poker around at the details and put it together again.

-will take longer overall

Definitely. Depending on your outlook on life this may or may not be an issue.

-the idea that the 'golden' idea is more loved/the practice novel is somehow a 'lesser' work

I started my current novel with this idea. It gave me the courage to get started on it, as if it didn't turn out good I could just claim it was for practice. Having spent a bit over a year working on it now I no longer subscribe to this idea.
My practice novel is turning into an awesome piece of work and I'm pouring my heart and my passion into writing it. This happened without me noticing it. I can't say for sure when things changed, but one day I realized they had and it was something of a revelation.


There's another argument against the practice novel:
What if you never feel ready to take on your great idea and you never get around to write your magnum opus?
This is something of a concern to me and I can see it happening. That would be disappointing.
However, I'm still on my first novel and I'm not even done with it yet. Throughout writing it I've got ideas for at least three spin-offs that I'd be interested in writing and it may very well be that I never write the story that I originally got into writing to write.
I'll find some way of dealing with that later. For now, it isn't an issue, but in fifteen to twenty years it may be.

 

[Incanus]

I'm pretty well decided now: I'm going to go ahead with the 'simple/practice' novel.

I'm being somewhat tentative here as there has been very little work on it so far. But I did a couple of exploratory brainstorming sessions during the preceding week and came up with a few things that I like. I won't say it isn't daunting: having to put myself back on square one after all the work I've done on the 'magnum opus' causes me to sigh prodigiously.

However, I'm looking at the long haul and I see a goodly number of benefits in proceeding this way. I believe I possess the requisite patience. If I am able to stick it out, I'll end up with a pretty nice long history for the imaginary world setting--I'll need to add about 3000-4000 years of history to what I already have. And there will be a number of ideas that fit with the whole world, which means that here and there some work will inadvertantly get done on the 'magnum opus' WIP (in fact, I thought of just such a thing last night, and which also fits in with the short story I'm currently working on, which takes place in the same world as well). I think also that if I can complete this novel, I'll have much more confidence in tackling the 'magnum opus'.

@Svrtnsse--thanks for the breakdown of the 'cons'. For myself, I didn't give much credence to con #3 (If you don't love it, it probably won't turn out all that great), but I included it because it was a concern raised by several folks within this thread, and I was trying to compile a complete list so as to put everything up on the scales, so to speak. Also, the term 'stale' was probably not the best word I could have chosen for that particular concept. I mostly just meant that if I put away these ideas for the time necessary to work on the 'practice' novel, I might not be able to recall them freshly, I may lose some of the connections they create in my mind no matter how well I've made notes on them (and most of my hasty notes are poorly written, just idea captures).

I would also like to thank everyone here at Mythic Scribes. Having folks to talk through these issues is very valuble. The average co-worker, cool as they might be, either lack interest or knowledge about these things.

Write away!

 

[Jabrosky]

If your original idea grows old and stale, was it really such a good idea in the first place? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. It's really hard to tell. Most writers will get to the point where they think that their idea and their novel and everything they've ever done is rubbish. It's just one of those things. It happens to everyone.
If you lose the passion for the original idea, pick it apart and poker around at the details and put it together again.

I would recommend something like this too. If you lose enthusiasm for a project, you should analyze it and identify the spot where the monkey wrench hit your momentum. Maybe this would help you fix it and get your running again.

 

[Starscream]

All novels are practice novels. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make money from them if they're good.

This is true.

 

[Devor]

There's a problem with practice. It doesn't always work. You can write a hundred novels, and if you're not pushing yourself to improve, you won't get better.

I'll put one in for start simple. Face the whole process. Give yourself a chance to grow as a writer before diving into the deep end. There are things you only learn at the end of writing a story that would be really helpful to know at the beginning. Learn those things before trying out an epic.

But there are people who write practice books, plural, that should never see the light of day. And as Steerpike said, nowadays they end up on Amazon. There are also people who submit their first book two dozen times before it's accepted - and it's on their two dozenth draft.

The real question is how do you know that you're practicing in a way that gets you somewhere? Can you tell the difference between the practice novel and the finished product?

It's not easy. All I can say is, good luck everyone.

 

[Incanus]

I'll put one in for start simple. Face the whole process. Give yourself a chance to grow as a writer before diving into the deep end. There are things you only learn at the end of writing a story that would be really helpful to know at the beginning. Learn those things before trying out an epic.

And this is exactly my intention. I've used the term 'practice novel' for lack of a better one. The idea is to produce something relatively simple, yet commercially viable. It will not be a 'throw-away', and I will definitely be pushing myself to grow and learn while working on it. Also, I tend to like more 'artsy' writing, and in striving for such in my own work, I struggle greatly and never get complacent. I may very well be deluding myself, but I think that I can tell the difference between what would be a practice piece and a finished piece with all the working parts.

I'm just not ready for my epic yet, but with some experience under my belt, I believe that I will be one day.

 

[Incanus]

Apologies, apologies for resurrecting this old chestnut. Not likely to do this often.

A little over a year ago, I was looking to join a fantasy writing forum and came across MS, and this thread. When I finished reading it over, two things happened: I immediately signed up on this site, and I shelved my ‘magnum opus’, realizing I didn’t yet have the chops to pull it off.

The ‘testimonies’ given here by Phil O., Penpilot, Caged Maiden, and Svrtnsse made me rethink what I was doing. And the counter-points made by others were extremely helpful as well. I can only imagine where I’d be now if I had tried to write my ‘big idea’ story first—pulling out the rest of my hair and banging my head against the desk in despair, I guess.

I spent the ensuing year working on shorts to practice up for the (so-called) practice novel. As of today, I’m quite glad that I chose that course. I’ve learned a ton since then. I keep struggling with all things writing, but I’ve kept at it. Ever so slowly, I’ve improved (I like to think so, anyway).

I figured this was a good time to revisit this topic, as I’m about to plunge into my first ‘real’ novel. I can see so clearly now why all my previous attempts were never going to fly. This time, I’ve got a pretty damn solid foundation laid down, and more experience under my belt. I feel fairly confident that I’ll be able to see this one through.

So, that’s my story, for what it’s worth.

Thank you, Mythic Scribes members, for helping me find the right path forward! It has meant a lot to me.