The divide between what's fun and what sells, do you compromise?

[Prince of Spires]

I don't understand why someone would write to try and make a ton of money, for me, it's passion that driveswhat I do.

Beside money being nice to have, the more important thing is just to get readers. It's very depressing to log into your Amazon account each day and to see that no one has bought or read your book. Even more so if it's not just 1 book but 5 or 10 books that no one is reading.

Not everyone wants to be a full-time author. But I think most people who publish like being read.

 

[D. Gray Warrior]

I want to have my cake and eat it to: to be able to write what I want, and for it to still sell.

I heard that most writers don't get traditionally published until after they have written 3-5 novels. I recall one author who had written 10 novels before she finally got one published.

Since I am on my first, it will most likely get rejected, so I may as well have fun with writing it. I'm still gonna try to submit it just because I don't think I'd have anything to lose from trying.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

My mom used to say that if you couldn't paper the office walls with rejection slips that you just aren't trying hard enough.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I heard that most writers don't get traditionally published until after they have written 3-5 novels. I recall one author who had written 10 novels before she finally got one published.

This is definitely the case. I like the comparisson with professional musicians, which easily shows why this is the case. Take two people. One has started playing the piano last year. The other is a professional concert pianist with 20+ years of experience. They both sit down to play. How long would it take you to say which is which? I would personally think it takes not even 30 seconds to notice the difference.

The same is true with writing. Writing is a creative skill. It takes time and practice to become good at it. Which indeed means either writing multiple novels, writing a lot of short stories, or writing the same book over and over again. Brandon Sanderson wrote 13 books before getting published (he's in the first category). JK Rowling only wrote 1 (if I recall correctly), but she polished that over and over again, which is roughly the same thing.

 

[Ned Marcus]

My mom used to say that if you couldn't paper the office walls with rejection slips that you just aren't trying hard enough.

Those were the days. They all come by email now.

 

[Devor]

The funny thing is that readers have no idea if your book is written to market or not when they pick it up. A reader can read the first few pages to see if they like the writing style. And they can pick up some of the clues about (sub)genre from the first few pages. But there's no guarantee that you'll stick close to the genre expectations and write to market. It might influence if people buy the second book, but not the first.

I am so confused about why the idea of "writing to market" appears to mean "writing to subgenre expectations." If someone were to ask me how to write a book with mass appeal and marketability, that is just so far from where I would begin.

Genres are meant to be pushed. Expectations are meant to be subverted.

What matters is understanding your target audience and understanding how to speak to them and surprise them.

And often you can tell from a blurb or an opening page. You can tell who the book is speaking to. If you can't you're screwing up.

 

[Insolent Lad]

Fun to write? Writing has never been fun for me. It's hard and sometimes exhausting work. And, as such, I am going to write what I want to say, not what someone wants to read. I might as well do something that paid better.

 

[D. Gray Warrior]

This is definitely the case. I like the comparisson with professional musicians, which easily shows why this is the case. Take two people. One has started playing the piano last year. The other is a professional concert pianist with 20+ years of experience. They both sit down to play. How long would it take you to say which is which? I would personally think it takes not even 30 seconds to notice the difference.

The same is true with writing. Writing is a creative skill. It takes time and practice to become good at it. Which indeed means either writing multiple novels, writing a lot of short stories, or writing the same book over and over again. Brandon Sanderson wrote 13 books before getting published (he's in the first category). JK Rowling only wrote 1 (if I recall correctly), but she polished that over and over again, which is roughly the same thing.

I don't get writing 10 or 13 novels to get published. I get writing is a skill and it needs practiced, but after my fourth or fifth rejection, I'd rather just go back and keep revising one of my other novels than start a sixth attempt.

 

[Mad Swede]

My mom used to say that if you couldn't paper the office walls with rejection slips that you just aren't trying hard enough.

So where does that leave the late Sir Terry Pratchett, who was accepted by the first publisher he approached, or the late Dick Francis, who was approached by his first publisher? Maybe the rest of us are/were doing it all wrong?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

So where does that leave the late Sir Terry Pratchett, who was accepted by the first publisher he approached, or the late Dick Francis, who was approached by his first publisher? Maybe the rest of us are/were doing it all wrong?

In English I would call them "outliers." There will always be a few outliers, especially considering how many millions of titles get published each year.

 

[BearBear]

Fun to write? Writing has never been fun for me. It's hard and sometimes exhausting work. And, as such, I am going to write what I want to say, not what someone wants to read. I might as well do something that paid better.

It's a fun hobby for me, no one asked me to do it and I don't expect to be paid for it. I just like reading what I wrote, I like developing stories, I like developing characters, they become friends in a way. I like to torture them but that's only because that forges them to someone with character and strength so they can be total badasses. I can play god in a way. When I don't feel like it, I don't.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It's a fun hobby for me, no one asked me to do it and I don't expect to be paid for it. I just like reading what I wrote, I like developing stories, I like developing characters, they become friends in a way. I like to torture them but that's only because that forges them to someone with character and strength so they can be total badasses. I can play god in a way. When I don't feel like it, I don't.

And then we offer cookies and you never come back from the Dark Side.

 

[Redfrogcrab]

And then we offer cookies and you never come back from the Dark Side.

We got cake on the true neutral side

Beat that!

 

[Mad Swede]

In English I would call them "outliers." There will always be a few outliers, especially considering how many millions of titles get published each year.

That is true now, certainly. But was it true then? The thing is that modern computers make it very easy to write, edit and even publish books. You can mail them out almost en masse to agents and publishers, or self-publish. That wasn't true in the 1950s and 1960s when Dick Francis started writing, nor was it true when Terry Pratchett started writing in the late 1960s. Even in the late 1970s and early 1980s when David Gemmell started his career as a writer it wasn't easy to complete a book. I wonder if it wasn't the case that at the time far fewer people completed books and even fewer sent them off to agents and publishers. So there wasn't as much competition and that made it a little easier to get published if you stuck at it.

 

[pmmg]

We got cake on the true neutral side

Beat that!

 

[Redfrogcrab]

You see if I play All sides, I win, I can also win by not playing at all

 

[pmmg]

If you dont stand for soemthing, you'll fall for anything.

 

[Redfrogcrab]

bingo

 

[BearBear]

Well I'm currently writing Grimdark murder/torture fantasy that probably would get me arrested so the dark side might not be as dark to me as you think it is.

I mean, it's making me sick to my stomach to read it back and that's my goal with this, my 13rh book.

Dark Side.

 

[Ned Marcus]

You could also ask the question: Can you compromise? Not everyone can.