The divide between what's fun and what sells, do you compromise?

[Finchbearer]

I know myself so much so that I know I couldn’t compromise, I have a stubborn cut off my nose to spite my face type attitude.

 

[Rexenm]

There’s something strange about the word compromise. Pros? Cons?

 

[Demesnedenoir]

It is true that the market is flooded, and it was easier to be "creative" and be noticed back in the day because so much less was being produced. But, it's still possible to be an outlier, I suspect, although I don't pay attention to such things. I was in the wine biz and always noted that big Cali wineries were really out trying to replicate McDonalds but tasting the same every year so customers know what to expect instead of being more natural with years of great vintages and subpar vintages. The book publishers/agents are trying to do the same, despite screaming "diversity!" There was a great write up on this from a Pub'd author that was hilarious and sad at the same time. Can't recall the name, but it pointed out all the massive hypocrisy in the publishing business.

Of course, young people are the best targets, because things can still seem new to them, heh heh. A bit like the only "new" about the Avatar movies is the FX. Almost all super hero flicks. Etc etc etc.

That is true now, certainly. But was it true then? The thing is that modern computers make it very easy to write, edit and even publish books. You can mail them out almost en masse to agents and publishers, or self-publish. That wasn't true in the 1950s and 1960s when Dick Francis started writing, nor was it true when Terry Pratchett started writing in the late 1960s. Even in the late 1970s and early 1980s when David Gemmell started his career as a writer it wasn't easy to complete a book. I wonder if it wasn't the case that at the time far fewer people completed books and even fewer sent them off to agents and publishers. So there wasn't as much competition and that made it a little easier to get published if you stuck at it.

 

[Ozonequeen]

I am not planning on sales so it's a moot point for me, but in your business, to what degree do things get cut or steered by what sells over what you consider fun to write?

Why write if it isn't fun? I like to believe that we find it fun for a reason, right? I also like to think that stories come to us for a reason, we are instruments of creation. So, if it's fun then its what we're supposed to write. What bothers me is that I'm seeing a lot of literary agents seeking diversity whether it comes in the form of LBGTQ or racial diversity. My thing is I'm white and straight. How am I really supposed to tap into the feelings of someone who is gay or trans or black, authentically when they're not what I know. I can write characters into my story that might have such characteristics but to really delve into the feelings of these groups, would be very difficult for me. Honestly as a straight female, I have little interest in reading a m/m or f/f love story. The only one that I have truly considered is Natalia Jaster's Dream, because her writing and the Foolish Kingdom stories are so beautiful and lush,.

 

[BearBear]

Why write if it isn't fun? I like to believe that we find it fun for a reason, right? I also like to think that stories come to us for a reason, we are instruments of creation. So, if it's fun then its what we're supposed to write. What bothers me is that I'm seeing a lot of literary agents seeking diversity whether it comes in the form of LBGTQ or racial diversity. My thing is I'm white and straight. How am I really supposed to tap into the feelings of someone who is gay or trans or black, authentically when they're not what I know. I can write characters into my story that might have such characteristics but to really delve into the feelings of these groups, would be very difficult for me. Honestly as a straight female, I have little interest in reading a m/m or f/f love story. The only one that I have truly considered is Natalia Jaster's Dream, because her writing and the Foolish Kingdom stories are so beautiful and lush,.

I grew up in a liberal area of a diverse big city with racial proportions that are similar to national average so I'm white straight too but I had Hispanic, Asian and Black friends on and off. If the story needed diversity I'd have it in me to do to some degree. I have also had gay friends (bi really) and since I spend time online I've at least had "friendships" with trans (bi) people (FTM).

My books have had bi and lesbian characters and my latest book is no different. I have also had biracial characters black, asian etc. I have also had dragonkin, beastkin etc.

I wouldn't force an inclusion though. I need to feel my characters are right for the roll.

As far as cultural race, I bypass that because my world isn't this Earth.

 

[pmmg]

Im with you.

I am not interested in gay topics and not going to add diversity just to have it. I think way too many in our media/current culture are fixated on it, and they make a lot of noise. In a creative endeavor i mostly expect to encounter ppl who sympathetic to those messages, and on website like this, and in places you might submit to, they are likely to be the majority. I think they greatly overlook how many do not share the values of those that are and are not interested in a market that caters to such. There are many in the industry who would blackball you for not sharing it with them. And even many who openly say stories with no gay characters need apply. They have overestimated there influence and don't have a realistic view of consumers. They are becoming more and more irrelevant by so many different means to get something out in public.

Forget them and write the story you want. Find the market they overlook.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Why write if it isn't fun? I like to believe that we find it fun for a reason, right?

Some people enjoy writing, while others like to have written. It's a subtle difference.

I generally enjoy writing. But it can take a bit of effort to stop procrastinating and actually start writing. And some days the writing doesn't flow at all and it's a struggle to actually get words on the page. I'm still always glad when I stop writing that I have written though.

 

[BearBear]

Some people enjoy writing, while others like to have written. It's a subtle difference.

I generally enjoy writing. But it can take a bit of effort to stop procrastinating and actually start writing. And some days the writing doesn't flow at all and it's a struggle to actually get words on the page. I'm still always glad when I stop writing that I have written though.

For me it's a time issue, when I get into a book, I pump out 2k words per hour and I can have 10k words in one sitting. Then it's like I have to not think about it or I'll have endless notes everywhere until I can get back to it.

 

[Gurkhal]

For me its like 90% of writing what I want to write and 10% of writing it in a way that makes other people want to read it.

 

[The Dark One]

Cool thread.

You could propose a different question: to what extent do you write via a marketing prism?

I've always written what I wanted to write and the first two novels were rejected hundreds of times. They served their purpose though in that I learned how to write. Then, when I had my next big idea, it occurred to me that the idea was a very commercial idea, despite me not setting out in any way to write from a commercial perspective.

It was also super fun to write, being about someting I absolutely love, and the very first publisher I sent it to snapped it up in less than a week. The take-aways were: I had learnt to tell a story; and I was writing about something I know very well.

At the launch, someone asked whether it was hard to published and I thought: no... the first publisher took it, but that would never have happened without all that had gone before, and the premise being so commercial.

It occurred to me that night that if you have the right product, it's easy to get published. If you don't have the right product it's impossible.

I'm about to have my sixth novel published and not once have I ever deliberately set out to write commercially, but I would agree that my work has become much more commercial than it was originally. Where the evolution came from, I have no idea, but maybe as I've become a better writer I simply make better choices regarding my characters and their travails?

 

[Mad Swede]

Cool thread.

You could propose a different question: to what extent do you write via a marketing prism?

I've always written what I wanted to write and the first two novels were rejected hundreds of times. They served their purpose though in that I learned how to write. Then, when I had my next big idea, it occurred to me that the idea was a very commercial idea, despite me not setting out in any way to write from a commercial perspective.

It was also super fun to write, being about someting I absolutely love, and the very first publisher I sent it to snapped it up in less than a week. The take-aways were: I had learnt to tell a story; and I was writing about something I know very well.

At the launch, someone asked whether it was hard to published and I thought: no... the first publisher took it, but that would never have happened without all that had gone before, and the premise being so commercial.

It occurred to me that night that if you have the right product, it's easy to get published. If you don't have the right product it's impossible.

I'm about to have my sixth novel published and not once have I ever deliberately set out to write commercially, but I would agree that my work has become much more commercial than it was originally. Where the evolution came from, I have no idea, but maybe as I've become a better writer I simply make better choices regarding my characters and their travails?

I sometimes wonder if we as authors become more commercial when we get published or whether it is that we get readers who enjoy what we write and who then encourage others to read our books? I don't think I've become more commercial in what I write, in the sense that I still write what I want to write. But maybe I've unconciously adapted my writing slightly to what my readers enjoy? It's something to think about over a glass of scotch but it isn't something I'm going to worry about, not when I have the next book to finish...

 

[The Dark One]

One of the things I have noticed about my evolving style (post-published) is that I write in quite short, episodic chunks.

So many have said to me over the years what a good movie X book would make, and I put that down to the episodic style where things keep happening and pages keep turning. I've also learned how to pace a story pretty well and really go up through the gears over the last third or so.

Is that commercial? Probably, but I didn't set out to do it... it just happened.