The Rings of Power: Discussion Thread

[Ankari]

I'm not familiar with the source material. At face value, the two episodes were entertaining. What, exactly, is the show diverging from the source material that is causing people to hate it? Is it just Galadriel's portrayal as a warrior?

The second episode is much better than the first. I felt much of the themes of the LotR movies in it. The dissonance between the elves and every other race. The theme of friendship and loyalty. Th impending doom.

But I'm curious to understand what is throwing the fans of the source material off from the shows.

 

[FifthView]

I, also, am not familiar with the source material.

I'm enjoying it so far. Comparing it to House of the Dragon—the question arises everywhere—my enjoyment for The Rings of Power is not on the same level. Maybe that's because it has had a slow start. In HotD, the intrigue, conflict, etc., was established very quickly, with more to be revealed. In TRoP, there's a lot of milieu building, cursory introductions to lots of characters, but not yet anything to inspire the same questions I already have while watching the other show.

I also wonder if the limited-magic vs awash-in-magic factors play a role in this muted appreciation, not only for myself but also for others. Take away the magic, and HotD must settle into nitty gritty affairs. The Rings of Power, on the other hand, still has a lot of its head in the clouds, with ominous forces perhaps circling but everything still rather abstract.

 

[Aldarion]

I'm not familiar with the source material. At face value, the two episodes were entertaining. What, exactly, is the show diverging from the source material that is causing people to hate it? Is it just Galadriel's portrayal as a warrior?

The second episode is much better than the first. I felt much of the themes of the LotR movies in it. The dissonance between the elves and every other race. The theme of friendship and loyalty. Th impending doom.

But I'm curious to understand what is throwing the fans of the source material off from the shows.

I, also, am not familiar with the source material.

I'm enjoying it so far. Comparing it to House of the Dragon—the question arises everywhere—my enjoyment for The Rings of Power is not on the same level. Maybe that's because it has had a slow start. In HotD, the intrigue, conflict, etc., was established very quickly, with more to be revealed. In TRoP, there's a lot of milieu building, cursory introductions to lots of characters, but not yet anything to inspire the same questions I already have while watching the other show.

I also wonder if the limited-magic vs awash-in-magic factors play a role in this muted appreciation, not only for myself but also for others. Take away the magic, and HotD must settle into nitty gritty affairs. The Rings of Power, on the other hand, still has a lot of its head in the clouds, with ominous forces perhaps circling but everything still rather abstract.

I wrote a review of the first episode:

Rings of Power Commentary – Episode 1

First obvious thing about the first episode of the show is that it is a clearly attempted ripoff of Jackson’s Lord of the Rings. Introductiory narration is fundamentally Galadriel’s nar…

militaryfantasysf.wordpress.com

Should give you some clue, and keep in mind that I am not a Tolkien expert so I probably missed a lot of mistakes.

Long story short, however: showmakers couldn't care less about the source materials, and that is obvious from this abomination.

As I wrote in my commentary:

Because at this point the episode feels more of a reference to every single show, movie and PC game out there, except Lord of the Rings.

And that is the issue.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I'm not familiar with the source material. At face value, the two episodes were entertaining. What, exactly, is the show diverging from the source material that is causing people to hate it? Is it just Galadriel's portrayal as a warrior?

I haven't seen the show, but from what I've gathered they have basically only kept the names of the characters and made up the rest.

For instance: Galadriel never tried to sail to the undying lands and then jumped off a ship in the middle of the ocean. She wasn't a warrior. Gil-galad didn't hand out tickets to the undying lands. If I've got my timelines correct Galadriel is actually older and more powerful than Gil-galad, and would be equal to him. Gil-galad never trusted Sauron. Elrond by this time wasn't an upstart, but already respected for his wisdom and lineage. There have only ever been 3 unions between elf and men, and they are special, so a secret, random love thing between an elf and a human wouldn't happen.

And that's just off the top of my head from reading internet replies and watching the trailers.

 

[Jasnah- Ariel]

I dont wish to steal the energy of those who choose to like this production. So, I'm gonna stay out of this thread.

But, I would like to comment, I think a large part of the success of the LOTR movies was the effort to be true to the source material, something that was not present in the Hobbit films. I think many of the people who grew up with these tales will not appreciate disrespecting or disregarding the original artistic vision. I've seen enough from the production of this to know they wish to go their own direction. IMO, it would be best if they just invented their own property to do so, but....why waste an opportunity to turn off a fan base. Good luck to them.

I definitely agree, I felt like it lacked a lot of the magic of middle-earth that we felt in Lord of the rings, and even a little bit in the first Hobbit movie (don't get me started on the second two).

To be perfectly honest, I only lasted halfway through the first episode, I was intrigued by The Hobbit plot line, but utterly uninterested in the village one, and I couldn't handle Galadriel being shoehorned into the strong female character trope.

 

[Righmath]

First episode only. I wanted to binge-watch both released episodes, but after working my way through the first episode, I had no patience to go through another session of torture.

This is very dramatic! What did you not like about it?

 

[Righmath]

I haven't seen the show but I feel they missed a neat little nod to the Tolkien Fans... Release the first episodes on Thursday 22 September, Bilbo and Frodo's birthday and on the right day of the week for their big party in LotR. It wouldn't have made much difference to Amazon but may have made some of us more nerdy fans give a wry smile...

Ok, this would of actually been really good

 

[Righmath]

They released it on anniversary of Tolkien's death (2nd of September). Quite appropriate, as showmakers hate Tolkien and want to destroy his work.

So what was your issue exactly with the episodes? I think if Tolkien was alive he wouldn't be this negative whatsoever about it

 

[Righmath]

I haven't seen the show, but from what I've gathered they have basically only kept the names of the characters and made up the rest.

For instance: Galadriel never tried to sail to the undying lands and then jumped off a ship in the middle of the ocean. She wasn't a warrior. Gil-galad didn't hand out tickets to the undying lands. If I've got my timelines correct Galadriel is actually older and more powerful than Gil-galad, and would be equal to him. Gil-galad never trusted Sauron. Elrond by this time wasn't an upstart, but already respected for his wisdom and lineage. There have only ever been 3 unions between elf and men, and they are special, so a secret, random love thing between an elf and a human wouldn't happen.

And that's just off the top of my head from reading internet replies and watching the trailers.

I am currently rereading the Sillmarlion and I shall respond in due course...

 

[Righmath]

I couldn't handle Galadriel being shoehorned into the strong female character trope.

Weird comment with some very strong undertones! Galadriel in the Fellowship was described as "the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth". So I'm not sure why you wouldn't assume from this that she wasn't a warrior?

Also another quote;

“Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power [of Galadriel] that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back”.

I suppose in your mind, because she was a feeble woman, she just sat in the throne room? Not to mention that she was also described as Sauron's greatest foe?

So if I'm honest, either you haven't read the books, or you have written off the series as 'woke'. Either way, it seems like you're on the wrong side of the fandom, and Tolkien himself

 

[Aldarion]

So what was your issue exactly with the episodes? I think if Tolkien was alive he wouldn't be this negative whatsoever about it

This is very dramatic! What did you not like about it?

Like, everything? They are basically relieving themselves straight onto Tolkien's work. And yes, Tolkien would be this negative, or if anything, even more so. He hated it when people wanted to change anything about his work or implied they knew his work better than he did.

Anyway, first episode only:

Rings of Power Commentary – Episode 1

First obvious thing about the first episode of the show is that it is a clearly attempted ripoff of Jackson’s Lord of the Rings. Introductiory narration is fundamentally Galadriel’s nar…

militaryfantasysf.wordpress.com

 

[Righmath]

Like, everything? They are basically relieving themselves straight onto Tolkien's work. And yes, Tolkien would be this negative, or if anything, even more so. He hated it when people wanted to change anything about his work or implied they knew his work better than he did.

Anyway, first episode only:

Rings of Power Commentary – Episode 1

First obvious thing about the first episode of the show is that it is a clearly attempted ripoff of Jackson’s Lord of the Rings. Introductiory narration is fundamentally Galadriel’s nar…

militaryfantasysf.wordpress.com

SY

Well then by your analysis Tolkien would have hated LOTR by Peter Jackson? Which plenty of people would also disagree with you?

 

[Righmath]

I'm not familiar with the source material. At face value, the two episodes were entertaining. What, exactly, is the show diverging from the source material that is causing people to hate it? Is it just Galadriel's portrayal as a warrior?

I agree! I honestly believe that people are perhaps stretching of what *they* would have liked to have seen, and are for some reason tying that to what Tolkien would have believed?

I think it was a great representation of his work which he and his family would have enjoyed. From what I gather, people seem to not like ROP because they are just dismissing it as 'woke', because... it's not full of white people?

On a side note, twitter is very fun to watch right now!

 

[Ankari]

Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power [of Galadriel] that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back”.

I suppose in your mind, because she was a feeble woman, she just sat in the throne room? Not to mention that she was also described as Sauron's greatest foe?

To be fair, this can mean she held magical powers equal to Sauron's. Might doesn't have to mean physical abilities. In fact, most of what I understand from the LotR, magical powers are often greater and more awesome. Look at Gandalf. He doesn't fight like Aragorn.

If I understand this properly, the Tolkien fans wanted Galadriel represented in this purer form of her power. A magical presence like Gandalf.

 

[FifthView]

Look at Gandalf. He doesn't fight like Aragorn.

Well in the movie, he shocked a lot of people by wielding a staff better than your average 20 year old could ever hope to wield it.

 

[FifthView]

As I've said already in this thread, I don't know the background.

This idea that I should go back and study all the texts so I can develop a correct, strongly negative opinion of the show is odd to me. I mean, I hardly put that kind of work in for anything. Launching into research with the goal of coming to hate the show just doesn't appeal to me, heh.

I can understand why some do hate the show. I've had exactly the same kind of reaction many times when I knew the source material for a show or movie. But that's not me with this show.

Oddly, after watching the first two episodes, I'm still curious to see the third episode, but I'm not wildly excited by the prospect. I'm much more into House of the Dragon.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I think if Tolkien was alive he wouldn't be this negative whatsoever about it

He definitely would have been. He already hated editors changing Dwarves to Dwarfs. In several of his letters he comments on how he views changes being made to his work. He wrote extensively on a movie adaptation which was being worked on during his life, and he absolutely hated any changes they made which were being made to his work.

As for the actual LoTR movies, we don't know Tolkien's opinion on them, but we do know his son's opinion on them, and he disliked them. He thought they weren't true to his father's tale and vision, and had too much focus on action for instance.

I'm sure the Tolkien estate is now very much enjoying the Rings of Power. I know I would if I was given $200 million for doing basically nothing. Even more so since they only have 20 or so years left to benefit from their IP.

Weird comment with some very strong undertones! Galadriel in the Fellowship was described as "the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth". So I'm not sure why you wouldn't assume from this that she wasn't a warrior?

might and strength at arms are two very different things. Galadriel at the time of The lord of the rings was one of the oldest elves in the world, and one of the few to have been to the undying lands and have seen the light of the trees. She is definitely one of the most powerful beings to walk the earth (and would have been more powerful than Gil-Galad. But her power wasn't in strength of arms, but rather in her magic and her wisdom. I don't think there's a single mention of her fighting an actual fight with a sword in her hand.

I am currently rereading the Sillmarlion and I shall respond in due course...

If you want to dive deeper, then after that you could also read The History of Middle Earth series, with all the stories and notes from Tolkien which didn't make it into the Silmarillion.

I personally feel that this show should be judged not on the name Tolkien which they put on, but rather as its own thing. It's not Middle Earth, but it doesn't have to be. As long as the story is good it can still be a good show.

 

[Aldarion]

Well then by your analysis Tolkien would have hated LOTR by Peter Jackson?

Definitely.

 

[Jasnah- Ariel]

So if I'm honest, either you haven't read the books, or you have written off the series as 'woke'. Either way, it seems like you're on the wrong side of the fandom, and Tolkien himself

Oh wow, you've got some of your own undertones

I've read the books and the Silmarillion many times.

I have no issue seeing her as a warrior. She's a total badass. I have an issue seeing the writers use weary cliches to let us know that she's a badass. A simple Google search of how problematic the strong female character trope is could probably say it more eloquently than I could.

If you enjoyed it, good for you, I have no judgments. I'm pretty picky, and I didn't feel like it met what I look for. Aren't forms like this for sharing those opinions instead of trying to insult others for what they like?

 

[Reaver]

Aren't forms like this for sharing those opinions instead of trying to insult others for what they like?

This site definitely is a place to express one’s opinion freely and I’ll remind everyone who comments on this thread to keep their replies respectful and to refrain from insulting other members.
Consider this my one and only warning to anyone who can’t abide by this.