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Traditional Publishing, Non-Compete Clauses & Rights Grabs

Hi, MS, I know self pubbing isn't for everyone, hence the reason we're talking about trade deals. But this isn't about indie versus trade - it's about how big the barrel is that the trade publishers will put you over.

Well, the barrel is indeed pretty big. But's the price that has to be paid. Even so, my traditional publishing has done wonders for my career and I don't regret a single contract I've signed. There's A LOT to be said for the hybrid model.

Russ, no one who takes a trade deal should be paying a single red cent for advertising, promotion, editing, cover design or any of that other stuff. That's the stuff you're giving up your rights and a chunk of your royalties to have someone else do. What you're suggesting is getting a dog and then barking yourself as they say.

I'm in your camp. I can see what Russ is saying, if you spend your advance, you improve your chances of success. But, to me, when you go self - you foot the bills and collect 100% profit. When you go traditional -- they pay the bills out of their cut of the pie.
 
Also outside PR people and marketers don't have access to many of the resources outside people do, or may not allocate them to newer authors. If they get a slot on NYC radio is it going to a new author or someone else? Can they even get you a slot on top radio and TV shows, and if they get those slots they are not likely going to the new guy in the house.

If you write a political book and get a spot on The Daily Show or sit with Colbert and chat - that is going to get you sales. But if you write fantasy (a very niche market) and show up on a drive-time radio show, my guess is you'll see no noticeable difference in sales. Joe Konrath speaks about this a lot. Even after being featured in very targeted magazine's for Thriller readers, he didn't see his sales change. You'd be much better off using your money for a giveaway on Goodreads then paying a PR person to try to get you "booked" on a show whose only result be a boost to your ego. For me, I'd rather have more people reading my books then to be on someone's show.
 

Russ

Istar
If you write a political book and get a spot on The Daily Show or sit with Colbert and chat - that is going to get you sales. But if you write fantasy (a very niche market) and show up on a drive-time radio show, my guess is you'll see no noticeable difference in sales. Joe Konrath speaks about this a lot. Even after being featured in very targeted magazine's for Thriller readers, he didn't see his sales change. You'd be much better off using your money for a giveaway on Goodreads then paying a PR person to try to get you "booked" on a show whose only result be a boost to your ego. For me, I'd rather have more people reading my books then to be on someone's show.

I am not Joe's biggest fan, and I would suggest respectfully to Joe that the data available about the impact of being in targeted magazines contradict's Joe's comments, particularly for the Thriller genre.

I tried to drop you a PM with some info you might find interesting, but it appears your inbox is full.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
Honestly, Russ is just one of those people who is completely entrenched in the traditional publishing worldview, as Kristine Kathryn Rusch talked about recently on her blog, and arguing with him is useless.
If you want to add something relevant to the discussion, please do so.

Rebutting an assertion is one thing. Attacking another member as "entrenched" or implying they're not only wrong, but also intractable, is another.

Please return the discussion solely to the topic at hand & refrain from taking any further jabs.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
If you want to add something relevant to the discussion, please do so.

Rebutting an assertion is one thing. Attacking another member as "entrenched" or implying they're not only wrong, but also intractable, is another.

Please return the discussion solely to the topic at hand & refrain from taking any further jabs.

My assertion was based on past experience on this very forum and was made with the intention of perhaps saving poor Mr. Sullivan, who is no doubt a busy man, some time. It was not irrelevant nor was it an attack. Heaven forbid anyone actually form an opinion about someone based on their many, many posts.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
My assertion was based on past experience on this very forum and was made with the intention of perhaps saving poor Mr. Sullivan, who is no doubt a busy man, some time. It was not irrelevant nor was it an attack. Heaven forbid anyone actually form an opinion about someone based on their many, many posts.

Negative opinions regarding another member are ALWAYS irrelevant to the topic, and they're never okay for discussion on Mythic Scribes.

Whenever you call someone out in the manner you did here, it is most certainly an attack. This is not my perception alone. Several members of the moderation team concurred. As you well know, personal attacks are forbidden on this site.

Michael Sullivan is more than capable of handling himself, I'm sure. He doesn't need you to interfere on his behalf.

If you wish to continue this discussion through PM with a member of the moderation team, you're welcome to do so. Otherwise, please return to the on topic discussion.
Thank you.
 
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Honestly, Russ is just one of those people who is completely entrenched in the traditional publishing worldview, as Kristine Kathryn Rusch talked about recently on her blog, and arguing with him is useless.

I think both Russ and I have had substantial experience and I welcome his comments,even if they do differ from my own. It's good for people to see several perspectives. The one thing about publishing, is almost everyone's experience is different. Levels of success vary wildly and in some cases how one author is treated by publishers is different than another's. I think the difference is I'm targeting my comments toward what I would consider a more mid-list author and he seems to have experience with either small presses or very large authors and so his comments are formed from a different sub-segment than my own.
 

Russ

Istar
I think both Russ and I have had substantial experience and I welcome his comments,even if they do differ from my own. It's good for people to see several perspectives. The one thing about publishing, is almost everyone's experience is different. Levels of success vary wildly and in some cases how one author is treated by publishers is different than another's. I think the difference is I'm targeting my comments toward what I would consider a more mid-list author and he seems to have experience with either small presses or very large authors and so his comments are formed from a different sub-segment than my own.

I have learned a ton from MS's posts and plan to continue to do so. His insights, especially where they differ from mine, have been invaluable to me. We are lucky to have him posting on this site.
 
I have learned a ton from MS's posts and plan to continue to do so. His insights, especially where they differ from mine, have been invaluable to me. We are lucky to have him posting on this site.

Thanks Russ...it's always good to get insights from more than one source.
 
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