What is your opinion about "magic words"?

[BiggusBeardus]

Hello!

I'm writing stories about magic. I've thoroughly developed my magic systems, but as for WRITING them, I'm wondering about "magic words" in the text/dialogue.

My first instinct is to just say something like: she spoke the arcane language...

But I think I would run out of ways to say that quickly. I'm already struggling on describing all my characters casting spells and such.

So I've started thinking about using made up words for some spell casting. Something like "Dath'ny'ariteel" or something.

What do you think about "magic words?"

 

[Gallio]

They have to look convincing. See Tolkien and Le Guin for good examples.
If the apostrophes in "Dath'ny'ariteel" are meant to represent glottal stops, and if the <y> is a consonant, not a vowel, I should point out that it is physically impossible to pronounce a sequence like your <ny'>.

 

[Gallio]

Actually, on further reflection, it might be possible if the <n>, or the <ny> combination, represents a syllabic consonant.

 

[Queshire]

One story I read recently had it where you can increase the strength of a spell by incanting it, but the incantation you used didn't actually matter. One character used an almost poem like incantation that fit the spell in question. Another character used a custom language she and her father made for incantation. That one was closest to magic words. A third character had and an incantation that went sonething like, "Ice Wall, Ice Wall, Chanting is stupid. This is my Ice Wall chant. Ice Wall."

Pretty good way to show each characters personality actually

 

[Prince of Spires]

There are 3 common ways to do this I think:

first is using almost understandable words or phrases. This is seen in Harry Potter, where faux latin is used that sort of sound like what the spell caster is trying to achieve.

The second is the full conlang option. Think Lord of the Rings, where there is a complete other language exists which the author knows and has rules for and words in.

The third is the random letters combined with too many apostrophies to create spells.

They achieve different things. The first makes them relatively easy to remember. There are a handful of spells in Harry Potter that play a big role in the story, and because the reader can remember them it's easy to follow along.

The second option deepens the world, gives your biggest fans something to figure out, etc.

The third is more about magic is mysterious, ancient and not very well known. It's also the option where the reader is most likely to simply gloss over whatever word you wrote, and simply accept "some magic is cast."

 

[BiggusBeardus]

Queshire wizardry magic system is kind of like that. The actual words didn't matter. They are something that the caster uses to help focus their mind on the effect being created.

Prince of Spires and Gallio I'm not trying to go FULL con lang, but I would keep jibberish words consistent. If I use jibberish I didn't necessarily intend for it to be pronoucable by the reader to emphasize the "arcane language" or whatever.

Thanks for your responses!

 

[JessMahler]

Historically, arcane languages have either been /old/ (Latin, Sumerian, Biblical Hebrew (for Jews)) and those assumed to be 'purer' or 'truer' or /borrowed/ from a culture with a reputation for magic and/or mysticism (Hebrew (for Christians), Hindu) and assumed on that basis to be inherently mystical. So you might think about the relationship between your characters and the language they use/what makes it an arcane language.

For consistent jibberish, I love using Awkwords. You put in the letters you want to use, and rules for word construction, and it'll give you hundreds of constructed words that have a consistent phonology

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This is how we describe it. It gives us a lot of latitude for personalizing casting spells.

~~

Words held power, for wizards even more so than other preternaturals. They used symbolism to focus their magical wills, and words were simply very powerful symbols. Language did not matter. Winter preferred to cast in English, but it was only individual taste. Many wizards cast their magic by using glyphs and charts and weaving symbols together to bring about arcane meaning from ancient languages, but the power was not just in the drawing, in the speaking. It was in the will, and the magical attunement to impose that will on the universe.

~~

And in the next book we have someone who actually does cast in gibberish.

~~

Thomas flipped his coin in the air and caught it without his habitual flourish. “Your turn, Fitz.” Alerich knew it wasn’t because Thomas was tired. He was thrown by Elspeth’s behavior.

“On it.” Fitz took one last drag on his cigarette and tossed it to the ground. He then pulled out his flask and took a deep drink, gaze never leaving the chain-draped doors.

“Locks are frozen,” Alerich commented with his hands at the corner of Fitz’s vision, a note of teasing on his face.

“Are they?” Another drink and then Fitz stepped forward, murmuring Words of Command in a language Alerich and Thomas had never been able to untangle. Technically, it wasn’t the words themselves that were important, it was the focused intent behind them, so wizards could cast Words of Command in any language they pleased. Thomas thought that maybe Fitz was casting in the language he heard in the silence of his head.

That or he was casting in gibberish to mess with everyone around him. Both were very Fitz.

Fitz poured a judicious drizzle of scotch onto the padlock, his voice intensifying for an instant, and it was as if he washed time itself away. Rust ran off the metal like soap scum, leaving gleaming steel in its wake. Fitz then snapped his fingers, a foreshortened unlocking cantrip, the only one the charms master needed, and the lock fell away, leaving their way clear through the wide wooden doors, past gently swinging chains.

Fitz took another swig from the flask and capped it. “And that’s how it’s done, gentlemen.”

Alerich chuckled as he approached the doors. “Imagine what you could do for a rusted engine block.”

Fitz grinned and flashed two upright fingers at Alerich. “Terrible waste of scotch, that. Imagine how much would be needed.”

 

[Finchbearer]

Recently read a book with the magical words actually written in, and they made sense and gave the world building a richness. I am all for writers creating magical words, they just need to feel like they make sense. You just need to make sure they aren’t existing words in other languages (other than your own) and that they also don’t sound like similar words in other languages that might take a more international reader out of the context of the story. You might create a word that sounds very magical, but might mean ‘sausage’ in another language or something - not ideal.

 

[pmmg]

I'm not sure what I think on this. My inclination is to say, if all my magic was based on jibberish words, and it was frequent in the story, I might find ways to give the reader a break, and not use them every time.

I do think jibberish words worked well in WIllow, and helped with the feel and immersion.

One style, I have never liked, is just writing them backwards, as DC comics does. I think they can do something better.

In my own writing, words dont seem to be required.

 

[LieutenantWolf34]

Words in real life have power so it makes sense in fantasy that certain words would serve as the "trigger" for a magical action.

 

[BiggusBeardus]

Recently read a book with the magical words actually written in, and they made sense and gave the world building a richness. I am all for writers creating magical words, they just need to feel like they make sense. You just need to make sure they aren’t existing words in other languages (other than your own) and that they also don’t sound like similar words in other languages that might take a more international reader out of the context of the story. You might create a word that sounds very magical, but might mean ‘sausage’ in another language or something - not ideal.

I've actually posted here about that before. I hate coming up with fantasy words because if I search the word, it is ALWAYS something in some language or is someone's name. That's why I'm asking here about weird fantasy words. If I do use magic words, they are going to be strange like my example in my op.

Thanks for your response.

 

[BiggusBeardus]

I'm not sure what I think on this. My inclination is to say, if all my magic was based on jibberish words, and it was frequent in the story, I might find ways to give the reader a break, and not use them every time.

I do think jibberish words worked well in WIllow, and helped with the feel and immersion.

One style, I have never liked, is just writing them backwards, as DC comics does. I think they can do something better.

In my own writing, words dont seem to be required.

I've got multiple magic systems. Most of them don't use words. But wizardry does. Technically it doesn't HAVE to use special words. To cast a spell a wizard must create an intonation that resonates at a specific frequency and vibrates the Essence around them. The actual words don't matter. It is the vibration frequency. Wizards over the years have utilized an ancient dead language to create the words of spells as a "standardized" way of making those specific intonations. Technically a wizard could say "I like grill cheese sandwiches" and as long as the tones and vibrations were right for the spell, it would work. Some wizards DO use their own words because the ancient language is hard to learn. The wizards of old chose that language as a way to make it harder for just anyone to learn magic.

Thanks for your response!

 

[Demesnedenoir]

If words are necessary—going against the Depeche Mode lyrics—I would, on the one hand, as a reader, want examples, but I think I'd get annoyed if they were splattered all over the pages. But then, I find Potter and his wussy words and wands annoying and the books did just fine, heh heh.

This is a do what feels right to you issue, as it can work in either direction.

 

[Queshire]

Frequency and vibrations makes me think of magic music. Jazz Gandalf anyone? =0

Harry Potter actually gets a pass from me. I imagine, "do this thing in this very specific way in order to do it right even if you don't know why," is an experience most people are familiar with from their school days. Of course, for us it tends to be about grammar or math instead of charms, but the point remains.

 

[Queshire]

More seriously there's a lot of fun stuff you can do with a magic set up like that.

You could have someone disguise a spell as part of a musical performance or use different spell words than normal so that other wizards can't guess the spell. It'd also be interesting to explore just who would have the sort of pull needed to have a unified language of wizardry in a case like that.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

More seriously there's a lot of fun stuff you can do with a magic set up like that.

You could have someone disguise a spell as part of a musical performance or use different spell words than normal so that other wizards can't guess the spell. It'd also be interesting to explore just who would have the sort of pull needed to have a unified language of wizardry in a case like that.

We do have some fun with this. At least two of our magical disciples, potions/poisons and alchemy, can basically preload or prime spells contained within, well, potions and alchemical constructions, which is basically weaponized mathematics, and it means that magicians in those disciplines don't deplete their stores of energy as quickly as others. This is what it looks like, a bit misapplied, on the page, from Faerie Rising.

~~

Winter let out a yelp of startled pain but did not release the frantically scratching beast. It flailed about, claws raking her chest, her neck, her face, digging bloody furrows into her pale skin wherever it could find purchase. She beat against its thick body in panic, the envelope almost forgotten in her clenched fist, and it worried at her wrist like a dog, the teeth digging deeper and deeper into flesh toward bone.

Rolling onto her side, she released her grip on the envelope a little, half dumping, half pounding the goblin with red, glittering dust, drew the magic from within herself and through gritted teeth released it in a resonating Word of Command. “Bind!” It was not needed, the spell in the powder was already primed, but she was in pain and wanted to be sure it worked.

 

[Vaporo]

You know, I've seen several variants of "The words don't really matter, they just give the caster something to focus on" at this point. People want the "cool factor" of casting magic with incantations, and there's nothing wrong with that, but at the same time I feel like in a lot of these cases the incantation element of the magic system is just kind of tacked-on. Like, I feel like if the wizard just needs some kind of personal focus you'd have people figuring out ways to cast spells without cumbersome, obvious speech cues. What if a character is mute? Are they simply out of luck? If a character can bind their spell to any set of syllables, why wouldn't they bind them to something super easy to chant? (e.g. at-at-at-at-at-at-at).

Personally, I find it more compelling when the incantation has some kind of real meaning behind it. If an incantation means something, then it usually means that the character went to some effort to learn it. An incantation that means something can help bind the reader to the world and add depth to the magic system. Otherwise, it risks just being arbitrary noise that doesn't really matter and is only there to sound cool and pay lip service to a well-worn trope.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

It works if it fits the system, and that's great. In my world, prayer may function in this way if your connection to the god in question is strong enough and they think your cause is useful enough, but more likely, prayer's power will come from the unconscious reaction of the god, but all of that goes deep into the system's weeds. Words are not necessary for the latter, nor would spoken words be necessary for the former, but thinking the prayer would be necessary. A direct intervention also has the side effect of the prayerful not having control over what energies the god sends. That can get hairy, heh heh.

I would say if the system has depth, the system has depth, whether incantations are powerful or symbolic. In typical use in my system, words simply can't have intrinsic power.

You know, I've seen several variants of "The words don't really matter, they just give the caster something to focus on" at this point. People want the "cool factor" of casting magic with incantations, and there's nothing wrong with that, but at the same time I feel like in a lot of these cases the incantation element of the magic system is just kind of tacked-on. Like, I feel like if the wizard just needs some kind of personal focus you'd have people figuring out ways to cast spells without cumbersome, obvious speech cues. What if a character is mute? Are they simply out of luck? If a character can bind their spell to any set of syllables, why wouldn't they bind them to something super easy to chant? (e.g. at-at-at-at-at-at-at).

Personally, I find it more compelling when the incantation has some kind of real meaning behind it. If an incantation means something, then it usually means that the character went to some effort to learn it. An incantation that means something can help bind the reader to the world and add depth to the magic system. Otherwise, it risks just being arbitrary noise that doesn't really matter and is only there to sound cool and pay lip service to a well-worn trope.

 

[Billybones]

Hello!

I'm writing stories about magic. I've thoroughly developed my magic systems, but as for WRITING them, I'm wondering about "magic words" in the text/dialogue.

My first instinct is to just say something like: she spoke the arcane language...

But I think I would run out of ways to say that quickly. I'm already struggling on describing all my characters casting spells and such.

So I've started thinking about using made up words for some spell casting. Something like "Dath'ny'ariteel" or something.

What do you think about "magic words?"

How bout somethink like "KADAKKUS!!!" and a giant fireball shoots outta some knotfingered Tai Chi ball cannon or something???