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What YOU dislike seeing in female fantasy characters

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Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
Well, I've read a lot of historical romance, so let's be honest, it isn't exactly realism in those books. It's over-emotional inner monologues, codependence, and a general skewing of history to fit the overall tone and focus of the genre. When I read fantasy, I like female characters who are real and believable. I like female thieves and mages, I like women who have a goal other than bagging a handsome knight. I like women who want love for their own sake, not for what they gain in getting a man's affections. However, when i write, I write women who are plain, rather than beautiful, maybe demure on the outside but with a nasty streak. I like women who speak up when they have something to say, and though they all tend to have their own sensibilities about what is proper or what is right, none of them follow even their own rules all the time.

I've written a mage who assembles a company of mages to lead into battle to save her husband. I've written a middle-aged woman who uses poisons to control and con men in the crime syndicate in her city. I've written a teen girl whose lover is kidnapped and she never forgets him, even after her father tells her to stop digging for answers because powerful people have spoken, and the boy's not coming back. I wrote a blind priestess who has to choose whether to abandon her life as a priestess or remain under her mother's control forever. I wrote a woman bent on revenge when she believes a powerful cleric killed her son, though she has no proof. I like to think even though most of my stories are at least partly romance, that the individuals I choose to write aren't stereotypical. none of them are beautiful, or especially powerful, or even remarkable. Some are cunning, some are manipulative, some are really honest, while others are born deceivers. I didn't choose any of their traits because they're female specifically, but I do sometimes include some reflection that includes their gender. What I mean by that, is that my blind priestess knows she has a brother or two, that were given away, to live with their fathers, but she was kept to be a priestess and that's why she's in her mother's strangling grasp. She doesn't wish she was born a boy because boys are better, but she does wish she had been born free. My lady whose son was killed doesn't regret being a woman, but she laments her years (she's 43) because she feels past her prime and fears she's running out of time to get her revenge (she spent two years plotting).

I do the same things equally with my male characters. For example, I have a knight in one book who is mortally wounded on a journey with some mages, and he's healed with magic, but it makes him question his mettle and whether he's still strong enough to see his goals through (he's 31). It's less about his age and more about how he's given up and started a new life, and maybe he doesn't even want it anymore? Anyways, so my male characters have some of the same dilemmas my female characters do, and that's part of the fun for me in matching up the main characters with secondary characters who can help them overcome their personal shortcomings. Yes I write romance, but some of my male characters need love as much or more than my female ones, and I try to make both genders not only believable, but really authentic to people I've known. Some are good communicators, some are mostly good communicators but have a bit of grouchiness that gets in their way, and some are just altogether anxious or secretive, making them horrible communicators, until they can overcome their personal issues. Also, their goals tend to be individualistic, rather than "us" or "we", even if a couple forms. yeah, that's loads of fun for me.
 
My own personal standards are the same for men and women, but I have a few particular bones to pick with with my own gender. I don't dislike individual traits, I dislike the package as a whole, real or fictional. The prissy made-up damsel-in-distress type is pretty bad, but I prefer it over the Feminazi. Especially the ones who use it as an excuse to be bad cooks and have filthy houses, who think they're entitled to more and more in the name of equality, and who claim to be strong independent women but blame men for violent crime rather than have the common sense and initiative to harden their bodies and learn the skills to defend themselves. Also hate seeing women charge into battle with hair down and a flowy gown. So impractical.
 

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
Hmmm...I could be in trouble here.

I have two (well, three with the current NaNo) works that have prominent female characters.

In 'Labyrinth: Journal,' Doctor Isabella Menendez is an aging female magician of great power (by my worlds standards) and a close confederate of the MC. She usually plays the advisor role, but from time to time she'll make comments indicating a varied past.

Tia Samos is probably the central character in my 'Empire' series of novellas. She is attractive (and knows it), can be superficial, takes substances she shouldn't (though not to excess). But she is also smart and well educated. And for the first two novellas at least, husband hunting is one of her prime motivations. Her parents are wealthy commoners seeking an increase in social status, and seek to have Tia marry an aristocrat to gain that status. They did give her a list to choose from...and because they are merchants, told her to keep an eye out for profitable opportunities as well. This husband hunt occupies much of Tia's time, though darker forces are swirling around her. But, she is a sheltered student, not a warrior or a witch (though she does take a rudimentary self defense class later on). Hence, she ends up in a couple situations where panic seemed appropriate.

Hmm...I suppose Tia's maid Rebecca is worthy of note as well, though she gets far less page time. Rebecca is a former gypsy (clan was wiped out) with a knack for musicianship, makeup application, and an eye for fashion. Also a bit of a snoop and knows a few street fighting moves. I included her because a woman of Tia's status would need at least one capable maidservant.

Carina Menendez - grand daughter - of Isabella Menendez, is one of the principle characters in 'Labyrinth: Seed' which I am writing now. She is a former military mage trying to keep a low profile during an empire wide persecution of magical types. Keeps a fair bit of low company.
 
C

Chessie

Guest
Personally, I dislike the way women are portrayed in Westeros. Sickens...is more like it. However, Martin does a really good job of characterization in the first place so there's that aspect. He plays into my pet peeve though of sexualizing women. Using our bodies to get ahead in life is far from reality for most women.

So I guess my answer to this is female characters who use their looks and sexuality to solve problems or survive somehow. It's degrading unless it fits into the context of the story somehow (like prostitution or slavery, etc). Also, women who think too highly of themselves and have men falling all over them. That gets on my nerves fast.
 
I imagine it would be the same things I dislike in men.

As far as writing/cinema/TV etc., I get extremely bored with the need for every lead to be the prototypical "strong, independent, female".

I prefer characters like Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor (The original from the first two Terminator films) to all these Xena clones that the story creators are using to convince the audience that women are the physical equals of men.


I don't need every male lead to be the epitome of masculinity and machismo either.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
In real life I admire women for many reasons: as opposed to thinking of them as second class citizens for one.

I have strong women in my life that I rely on and that I look up to. Considering how women have been treated historically, I think it's only fitting to offer my interpretation of a literary voice that attempts to champion their strengths.

Plus I'm attracted to women so for me it's a win, win.

Rosalind is one of my favorite Shakespearean characters. If I could create my own Rosalind I would consider myself a success.

Ok so you mean "admire" in the sense of respecting them? English is not my native language, and while i believe that i can express myself rather well in this language, there are still some things that feel weird. When i see admire for instance, the first thing i think of is worship. And worshipping one gender over the other is something that seems very... silence of the lambsy.

But i understand what you mean. Thanks.
 
For me (and this is with female characters in anything) I hate when they try too hard to make them "strong". Don't get me wrong, I like strong female character, but people seem to have the impression that a strong female character automatically means she has to be punching people in the face all the time and constantly boasting about how she's "one of the boys". Tomboy characters, I don't have a problem with. If she's a tomboy then she's a tomboy, but when her being a tomboy is strictly to prove that she's "tough" or "strong", she feels the need to shout out to the world how big and bad she is, I automatically hate the character. A strong female character does not mean that she has to be a tomboy. It doesn't even mean she has to abandon being feminine. She can be as feminine as ever and be one of the strongest character in the story. The way I see it, being a strong character means she's capable of taking care of herself, she's courageous, she's not afraid to stand up for herself and what she believes in. That's what makes a strong character and that's what I like. Honestly, I'd rather read about a one dimensional, background piece character than an obnoxious broad running around with a sword and punching people in the face to prove how "tough" she is.
 
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^^^

That's why I like Ellen Ripley's character so much. She combines tenacity with wit in order to overcome difficult situations.

In Aliens, Ripley shows she knows how to handle a loader like a pro and that's pretty much all that a lot of the alpha male leads need to know when it comes to her personality and character. Then later on she displays strong leadership skills when things hit the fan. In Alien 3 she shows much of the same. Not to mention her sacrifice at the end.

The same with Sara Connor. Her strength comes from her determination, from the love she has for her son and Reese. She was basically an average every day woman at the start but necessity brought out a hidden strength and gave her a purpose that she never strayed from.

Both of these women kick serious ass but their characters aren't all about this "girl power" nonsense.
 
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Mythopoet

Auror
The way I see it, being a strong character means she's capable of taking care of herself, she's courageous, she's not afraid to stand up for herself and what she believes in.

Just to touch on this a bit (and not in any way arguing), I think I would define being a strong person as "the ability to remain true to yourself and what you hold sacred despite adversity and hardship". It has nothing to do with your physical condition, or your position in life. A devoted wife and mother is one of the strongest people you'll ever meet. Whereas the woman OR man who solves every problem with a weapon is one of the weakest.
 
No character should be one dimensional and serve only one purpose. There isn't anything that's against the rules when it comes to writing specifically female characters, but they're often written poorly. If your character is just a love interest to a male character, writing depth to that character is needed and you have to make that love convincing. If your character is an ass kicking woman hero, she better have flaws and character development like any other hero. If your character is just there to seduce a man or 'be sexy', then she better have a good reason to do so or be portrayed as a character who would do such a thing.

There are no rules, but there are suggestions I would have to avoid doing. I would just never do a love interest character (female or male). A love subplot that has nothing to do with the overall story isn't needed. That character better serve more purpose than just to be the main characters lover or that love subplot better be important to the overall story and it's themes. I would avoid any characters that are overtly 'sexy' and used like an object. Damsel in distress should be avoided, but that doesn't mean you can never have a man save a woman in your story. Most of what people have said in this thread are things you should watch out for. But they're not strictly things you should never do, you just have to be careful on how you do it.
 

Nimue

Auror
Yeah, uh, this would probably be a better discussion if people weren't throwing around terms like "obnoxious broad" and "Feminazi."
 

KC Trae Becker

Troubadour
My biggest pet peeve are women (and men for that matter) that, to further the plot, float through the story without expressing themselves much. They either spend too much time in their heads if they're the MC or POV character or they keep their dialogue short and ambiguous.

Most people talk too much rather than not enough. Overly quiet characters just seem so unreal. Who can survive in life being misunderstood all the time or leaving things unsaid when just a few words of explanation would clear up the confusion. And of course unravel the plot, but remaining silent to further the plot seems like a terrible, yet common, character trait for female (and male) characters to have.
 

MineOwnKing

Maester
Ok so you mean "admire" in the sense of respecting them? English is not my native language, and while i believe that i can express myself rather well in this language, there are still some things that feel weird. When i see admire for instance, the first thing i think of is worship. And worshipping one gender over the other is something that seems very... silence of the lambsy.

But i understand what you mean. Thanks.

I have no idea how you get worship out of admire.

Respect is something that is earned.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I mean exactly what I said and because it was a compliment your remarks are very inappropriate.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
I have no idea how you get worship out of admire.

Respect is something that is earned.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I mean exactly what I said and because it was a compliment your remarks are very inappropriate.


I stated that english isn't my first language. I think i am allowed to make mistakes. Worship is respect and admiration taken to the extreme, it really isn't that hard to see that. I am sorry i made a mistake because that is apparantly not allowed. Really you don't have to write so dismissively, you try and be dutch and be expected by all your neighbours to know french, english and german besides your own language.
 

Mythopoet

Auror
I stated that english isn't my first language. I think i am allowed to make mistakes. Worship is respect and admiration taken to the extreme, it really isn't that hard to see that. I am sorry i made a mistake because that is apparantly not allowed. Really you don't have to write so dismissively, you try and be dutch and be expected by all your neighbours to know french, english and german besides your own language.

Seriously. The people from non-English speaking countries on this site always astound me. I wish I could speak any other language half so well!

And anyway, the word "worship" didn't always refer to the reverence due to a divine being, as it is almost strictly used in America. "Worship" has been used as a title of respect for officials or people in a higher social class in England for instance. So Banten is not being "inappropriate" or even incorrect at all.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
Thank you Mythopoet.

Normally i don't get worked up very easily, but considering that i already have to struggle with multiple languages (of which i am only fluent in 2 but as soon as i arrive in germany or wallonia i am expected to speak german and french respectively), i find it very annoying when i am not just being called out on a minor mistake i made but also deemed "inappropriate". Seriously, i don't want to whine but everyone expects me to speak their language (international study) and they scoff at the idea of learning mine, despite studying in my country!

I went off topic there...
 

Guy

Inkling
Well, here are my issues with female characters. I absolutely love strong female characters. The problem is, most people get them wrong. The two common mistakes are:

1. They think "strong female" = "cast iron bitch." This is every bit as fallacious as "strong male" = "arrogant ass."

2. They make her a faux action girl. She's built up as some sort of bad ass, but at some point she always needs a guy to rescue her, or as soon as she falls for a guy she ceases to be an action girl. This really annoys the hell out of me.

My other issue is why so many people seem to think writing a good female character is akin to quantum theory. It's really not any more difficult than any other character. Just write the character. She's a human being, with all the complexities and paradoxes that entails - just because she's strong and independent doesn't mean she can't enjoy being wooed, just because she's a stay at home mom doesn't mean she can't be strong and decisive (indeed, mothers frequently have to be). Conversely, just because a male character is strong doesn't mean he can't cry or enjoy being with his children. We don't think twice about writing different species - elf, dwarf, fairy, orc, etc. - yet the idea of writing a woman stops us in our tracks. I really don't see what's so hard about this.
 
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