Flipping back and forth in an eBook is not a reader-friendly experience, in my view. I'm not really fan of doing it with a regular paperback book, but the eBook just doesn't lend itself well to doing so.
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Where Do You Put Your Book's Dictionary?
- Thread starter tlbodine
- Start date
WooHooMan
Auror
I'm basically the same way. I've always heard that most people kind of dismiss made-up words as jargon and tune it out. I even try to keep names really simple and familiar-sounding.
wordwalker
Auror
I think this principle, if not its literal truth, may be the most important thing on this thread. I admire the world-building that can fill up a glossary (which is really the proper term), but the best thing about terms is to use them as a goal for your scenes: steer the action so that when a term is used it's clear, and is conspicuous enough that the reader will remember it after that.
An actual glossary after that could still add convenience, and remind the reader how impressive your world has been. But if readers need to use it to understand even one of the worlds, you've just shoved them back into school, and that's even without e-reader limits. It's a lot like introducing characters, actually-- these also need to be made clear and memorable, while "I needed the Dramatis Personae list to follow the tale" is pretty damning.
So I'd say: don't just use the trick words as if they were natural, also write with "could I leave out the cheat sheet?" as their acid test.
Graylorne
Archmage
I don't fully agree, Wordwalker. T.Allen said 'For my style.' I agree with that. But it's not a universal principle.
Several of my books are based on historical and mythological concepts. For a large part I explain these in the action, but for some things the reader needs some basic knowledge I can't explain story-wise. For example the word 'alves'. The original Nordic form of what we know as elves. Swartalves and lightalves. In the book, all characters knows what they are supposed to be. Several beta readers did not. So I add this to a small list at the back of the book. It's not necessary for understanding the story, but for those who are curious, it's additional info.
And a list of characters - all my characters are memorable
. But there are a great many of them; it's epic, after all. That's why I add a list as a reminder.
So for my style, I do need those lists. As a service to my readers, not as proof of how clever I am
Several of my books are based on historical and mythological concepts. For a large part I explain these in the action, but for some things the reader needs some basic knowledge I can't explain story-wise. For example the word 'alves'. The original Nordic form of what we know as elves. Swartalves and lightalves. In the book, all characters knows what they are supposed to be. Several beta readers did not. So I add this to a small list at the back of the book. It's not necessary for understanding the story, but for those who are curious, it's additional info.
And a list of characters - all my characters are memorable
. But there are a great many of them; it's epic, after all. That's why I add a list as a reminder.So for my style, I do need those lists. As a service to my readers, not as proof of how clever I am
kayd_mon
Sage
@wordwalker (and I guess T.Allen.Smith)
Of course unfamiliar words, etc. should be clear in the reading. Of course characters should be memorable. But what if you have over a hundred important characters? Glossaries are helpful to the reader when there is a lot of unfamiliar things to remember.
Think about the reader as an average person - they go to work, pick up their kids from school, run to the supermarket just before cooking dinner, check up on the kids' homework before tucking them in, all the while thinking about that project that they have to finish for their boss the next day. As they jump into bed and grab the book from their nightstand, the one they haven't been able to read for a few days due to life and its demands, they might not remember every interesting thing or memorable character. A glossary serves as a refresher, so that they don't have to spend what little reading time they have flipping through the beginning of the book to remember who someone was.
If you have a lot of characters, or if you're using a lot of elements that are invented or just very different, then include a glossary. Write your book with the mindset that you won't have one, but add it in for the people who might benefit from it. It shouldn't be a depository for all the worldbuilding you did but couldn't fit in the story. If you got a big enough fan base, you could put that sort of thing in subsequent editions of your book, or on a website or blog.
Of course unfamiliar words, etc. should be clear in the reading. Of course characters should be memorable. But what if you have over a hundred important characters? Glossaries are helpful to the reader when there is a lot of unfamiliar things to remember.
Think about the reader as an average person - they go to work, pick up their kids from school, run to the supermarket just before cooking dinner, check up on the kids' homework before tucking them in, all the while thinking about that project that they have to finish for their boss the next day. As they jump into bed and grab the book from their nightstand, the one they haven't been able to read for a few days due to life and its demands, they might not remember every interesting thing or memorable character. A glossary serves as a refresher, so that they don't have to spend what little reading time they have flipping through the beginning of the book to remember who someone was.
If you have a lot of characters, or if you're using a lot of elements that are invented or just very different, then include a glossary. Write your book with the mindset that you won't have one, but add it in for the people who might benefit from it. It shouldn't be a depository for all the worldbuilding you did but couldn't fit in the story. If you got a big enough fan base, you could put that sort of thing in subsequent editions of your book, or on a website or blog.
It's perfectly acceptable to use glossaries or character trees if that's what you wish to do. I'd never suggest that you shouldn't if that's the direction you choose. My post was merely in response to the question "Where would you put one"... I wouldn't. My reasoning comes from my experiences as a reader. I never use them... Heck I never look at maps for that matter. I just want the story. That said, I can understand why some readers appreciate those details.
As long as the author isn't using reference pages as a crutch, I don't see the harm. I would however, question the clarity of terms & character distinction if it's necessary for the reader to use a reference page to remember what is what or who is who, regardless of real world factors. If my characters aren't memorable (and disparate), or if my foreign terms aren't crystal clear and interesting enough to remember, then I'd think there's a problem. I'm not saying that's the case with anyone's work here, just an additional consideration.
As long as the author isn't using reference pages as a crutch, I don't see the harm. I would however, question the clarity of terms & character distinction if it's necessary for the reader to use a reference page to remember what is what or who is who, regardless of real world factors. If my characters aren't memorable (and disparate), or if my foreign terms aren't crystal clear and interesting enough to remember, then I'd think there's a problem. I'm not saying that's the case with anyone's work here, just an additional consideration.
kayd_mon
Sage
I think you're right in a lot of cases, maybe most, but as a reader, I have appreciated glossaries. The two most recent examples are ASOIAF and Mistborn.
In ASOIAF, there are just too many characters. A cousin or a bastard of someone might pop up, and the family trees in the BOB there are very helpful in these cases.
In Mistborn, I was over halfway through the first book, and I still couldn't remember what each metal did in the magic system. The Allomancy reference guide was helpful. Granted, the glossary in Mistborn contained a lot more than that, but I didn't look at it, since it wasn't hard to get the characters straight.
But the main thing is as you said - it can't be a crutch. Because then there's another type of reader who hasn't the time or interest to flip through glossaries to get the story. That's why I say to write like it won't be there, but include it in cases where it will be helpful to the readers who will use it.
I like maps in general, so if a book has one, I like it, whether it's necessary or not.
In ASOIAF, there are just too many characters. A cousin or a bastard of someone might pop up, and the family trees in the BOB there are very helpful in these cases.
In Mistborn, I was over halfway through the first book, and I still couldn't remember what each metal did in the magic system. The Allomancy reference guide was helpful. Granted, the glossary in Mistborn contained a lot more than that, but I didn't look at it, since it wasn't hard to get the characters straight.
But the main thing is as you said - it can't be a crutch. Because then there's another type of reader who hasn't the time or interest to flip through glossaries to get the story. That's why I say to write like it won't be there, but include it in cases where it will be helpful to the readers who will use it.
I like maps in general, so if a book has one, I like it, whether it's necessary or not.
wordwalker
Auror
Actually, I'm not against glossaries. They do add an extra option of convenience, plus the clout of reminding the reader just how much stuff you have. (Or with an organized magic system like Mistborn, it's Just Kewl.)
But I think they shouldn't be a crutch. There's a continuum between maximizing the drama of a few terms and carelessly swapping in words on the grounds that "That's how they talk, and the reader Can Use the glossary," ignoring that flipping back and forth is hard to justify as exciting reading behavior. (And e-reader limits matter!) But new words do make a good writing focus, a priority on what to dramatize in a scene. "Could this work without a glossary" makes writing better, but I wouldn't say just not to use one.
(Of course, I just don't write thousand-page epics. But even there, that has more to do with whether a word can use help being remembered later than how casually you can throw it in.)
But I think they shouldn't be a crutch. There's a continuum between maximizing the drama of a few terms and carelessly swapping in words on the grounds that "That's how they talk, and the reader Can Use the glossary," ignoring that flipping back and forth is hard to justify as exciting reading behavior. (And e-reader limits matter!) But new words do make a good writing focus, a priority on what to dramatize in a scene. "Could this work without a glossary" makes writing better, but I wouldn't say just not to use one.
(Of course, I just don't write thousand-page epics. But even there, that has more to do with whether a word can use help being remembered later than how casually you can throw it in.)
Graylorne
Archmage
Now I'm with you
A glossary is for the words/concepts you can't explain any other way. Not an excuse for lazy writing.
Guru Coyote
Archmage
Now I'm with you
A glossary is for the words/concepts you can't explain any other way. Not an excuse for lazy writing.
That sums it up nicely!
I think 'coming up with a lot of stuff' is only the first part - it is world building. Or in the case of historical fiction, research.
The part I think that is the real task of a writer is to transport all this info to the reader's imagination. "Teaching your reader magic" - the magic system can be as kewl as you can make it,but it is your task to teach your reader to understand it. At least, that is my own aspiration. Otherwise, I'd be better off writing RPG source material, and not fiction.
wordwalker
Auror
Or, at the risk of re-using the classic, a glossary is Telling, not Showing. Doesn't mean it can't reinforce the real work on presenting a word (or I guess some minor phrases that can only be explained there are still worth having), but don't let it be your copout.
xcodeex
Acolyte
I put a map in the front of mine. I debated putting a dictionary in the back but decided to save that for a later release.
I agree with this. I don't mind a glossary is someone wants to put it in, but if your book needs a glossary, something has gone wrong in the writing process.
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