Wizard vs Wizard

[Sheilawisz]

That's true, Ireth.

Voldemort is not even human anymore after all that he did to his soul, so he cannot be considered a man (he is more like a magical anomaly) and so he would defeat the Witch King in battle =)

I am researching Merlin and Eragon now...

 

[Mindfire]

Using member-made characters would be tricky, but it's doable as long as everyone sticks to the honor system.

 

[TWErvin2]

I would think that Gandalf would have a tough time surviving against Elric, especially with Stormbringer.

Sethra Lavode from Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series would be a pretty difficult wizard foe to overcome, her magical weapon in hand or not.

High Lord Kevin (Landwaster), especially wielding the Staff of Law, from Steven R. Donaldson's Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever books, would be quite formidable as well.

Speaking of crossing books and magic systems, that would be why, for example, wizards from my books wouldn't fare well against say Elric or Sethra Lavode, or High Lord Kevin. Similarly wizards say Zelazny's Amber Chronicles Corwin, or Wizards from Frad Saberhagen's The Swords books, such as The Dark King, (Vilkata) who could among other things, summon demons and such, would be dangerous, especially with his sword of power (the Mindsword, that could even command the gods), but lack some of the raw power for a one on one. But Corwin in months could raise an army of a hundred thousand, and travel any reality almost at will, which makes him powerful in another way.

Sometimes it is the character, and sometimes the weapons. That's why I think possibly Sethra Lavode, even without her powerful dagger (Iceflame, I believe it's called) could stand and fight well against almost any character. Kevin Landwaster would too, even without the Staff of Law. But Elric, while powerful, would be much less of a threat without his sword. Again, the strength of the weapons goes to the world and magical system.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Those are so many Fantasy characters that I do not know, they all seem to be very powerful... we have many possibilities for a variety of battles in this thread!!

This is how the scores are so far in Wizard vs Wizard:

1- The Lady: 1
2- Soulcatcher: not fighting yet.
3- Quick Ben: not fighting yet.

4- Gandalf: 1
5- Voldemort: 1
6- White Witch: 0
7- Witch King of Angmar: 0

8- Tom Bombadil: not fighting yet.
9- Elric of Melnibone: not fighting yet.
10- Dragonborn: Still has to fight.

11- Merlin: fight in progress.
12- Eragon: fighting Merlin at the moment.

Today I have watched an episode of that Merlin show (quite entertaining) and read about its Magic system in the Wiki about the series. I don't know about Eragon... Could someone with more knowledge explain who would win the fight??

 

[Mindfire]

The thing about Merlin is that as the show goes on, he increases in power. So really the question is which season of the show are you looking at? Merlin's pretty weak in season one, but by the end of season 5 he's extremely powerful.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Then, let's have the most powerful, end of Season 5 Merlin fighting the famously over-powered Eragon.

I really liked the Merlin magic system after reading about it in the Wiki, while in the other hand, I do not like what I know so far about the Eragon magic system... I am going to support Merlin in this one.

Oh, I almost forgot!!

13- Captain Sheyla Vaylaszkysh of Lisskalya: So far, not allowed to fight because she would be too dangerous for the others!!

 

[Mindfire]

13- Captain Sheyla Vaylaszkysh of Lisskalya: So far, not allowed to fight because she would be too dangerous for the others!!

We could have her fight Melkor.

 

[danr62]

Well, I don't know much about the Merlin TV show. Also, I suppose it depends on when Eragon is fighting. Is it after the end of the last book? If so, he would be pretty tough to beat. Slightly before the end of the book he would be a lot less powerful.

 

[Mindfire]

Well, I don't know much about the Merlin TV show. Also, I suppose it depends on when Eragon is fighting. Is it after the end of the last book? If so, he would be pretty tough to beat. Slightly before the end of the book he would be a lot less powerful.

Well, it was specified that this is Eragon before godmode.

 

[danr62]

Oh, right. In that case, I don't think he's all that overpowered. In fact, he's probably less powerful than most of the elves of his own world. Then again, he could suck the life force out of every living thing nearby including Merlin, unless he has some kind of defense against that.

 

[Mindfire]

Oh, right. In that case, I don't think he's all that overpowered. In fact, he's probably less powerful than most of the elves of his own world. Then again, he could suck the life force out of every living thing nearby including Merlin, unless he has some kind of defense against that.

Near the end of season 5, Morgana tried something similar on him. His powers fizzled out for a while, but they came back shortly because apparently Merlin is magic itself incarnate.

 

[danr62]

Hmm, ok. Well, in Eragon's case if he sucks all of the life out of something, it dies. This power is then used to fuel a spell of some sort. For instance, Eragon might suck the life out of the nearby vegitation and small animals in order to launch a powerful spell.

So if he could drain a substantial amount of Merlin's power, he could then turn that power against Merlin. However, in order to do this he would need to break through whatever mental barriers Merlin has in place. Sort of a battle of the wills. I'm guessing that Merlin would have some pretty tough mental fortitude and Eragon wouldn't be able to get through.

But Eragon also is a capable physical fighter, and he has his dragon for a backup. So his dragon could potentially distract Merlin which might give Eragon a way to beat him.

I'd say without his dragon Eragon would be toast, with her though...

 

[Mindfire]

Hmm, ok. Well, in Eragon's case if he sucks all of the life out of something, it dies. This power is then used to fuel a spell of some sort. For instance, Eragon might suck the life out of the nearby vegitation and small animals in order to launch a powerful spell.

So if he could drain a substantial amount of Merlin's power, he could then turn that power against Merlin. However, in order to do this he would need to break through whatever mental barriers Merlin has in place. Sort of a battle of the wills. I'm guessing that Merlin would have some pretty tough mental fortitude and Eragon wouldn't be able to get through.

But Eragon also is a capable physical fighter, and he has his dragon for a backup. So his dragon could potentially distract Merlin which might give Eragon a way to beat him.

I'd say without his dragon Eragon would be toast, with her though...

Speaking of dragons, Merlin also has a dragon, the Elder Dragon Kilgarrah (think an orange-red Glaedr). Merlin is also a dragon lord and can speak the dragon language. This gives him the power to summon Kilgarrah to him from anywhere at any time, and also the power to issue commands to a dragon that they are unable to refuse, whether they want to or not. This power is, I think, limited in that it cannot coerce a dragon to attack its allies. I say this because Merlin has ample opportunity to command Morgana's dragon to attack her and has not done so, instead opting to shoo it away.

EDIT: Merlin is not a trained warrior, though he can handle a sword well enough. He also has access to the dragon-forged sword Excalibur. While this version of Excalibur does not make the user invincible, it can kill magical creatures and is nigh-indestructable. Probably an even match for Eragon's Zar'roc (or Brisingr depending on what time in Eragon's development this is). Merlin also has access to a Sidhe staff, though he rarely ever uses it.

EDIT: Scratch that part about not being able to coerce it into attacking allies. Apparently dragonlords can do this, but Merlin opted not to.

 

[danr62]

Ok, I think in this case Merlin wins. He has his own dragon to combat Sapphira so he can focus on Eragon, and I doubt Eragon is going to get through Merlin's mental defenses, which is paramount in a Wizard vs. Wizard battle from Eragon's world.

 

[ThinkerX]

13- Captain Sheyla Vaylaszkysh of Lisskalya: So far, not allowed to fight because she would be too dangerous for the others!!

Hmmm...a possible foe here would be the 'Dominator', the 'Lady's' very ex husband. Utterly evil and immensely powerful, capable of smiting entire cities...even when dead. In fact he did just exactly that in a 'Black Company' book - despite having no body and his soul imprisoned in a silver spike (or was it an iron spike?) his malignance nearly destroyed a substantial city brimming with magic users.

Given their respective capabilities, best to 'observe' this contest from a heavily reinforced bunker twenty miles away...

Possible alternative, from the same series (and much nicer) - 'The White Rose'. Sort of an 'anti-magician'. Radiates a field which negates magic. Can control this field to some extent; turned up 'full power' she was able to cancel out even the Dominators magic.

Not sure what effect a powerful anti-magic field would have on Captain Sheyla Vaylaszkysh.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Thanks for the interesting discussion- That seems to decide the battle in favor of Merlin, especially if he starts to use some devastating fire spells. I would have taken the dragons out of the match because this is Wizard vs Wizard but that was a good analysis after all =)

1 for Merlin and 0 for Eragon, so far!!

Now, I am still not sure about letting Captain Vaylaszkysh enter the magical frays of Wizard vs Wizard, even against powerful characters like Morgoth or the Dominator... This is a description of her basic magical capabilities:

1- She could enter a fight in the form of an invisible, untouchable presence. In this case most magical attacks like fireballs or lightning would not even touch her, beside the difficulty of fighting something that you cannot even see.

2- Even in this body-less state, she can deliver attacks of a terrible invisible force to tear her enemies to pieces, blow them up or just crush them. Her mind-destroying powers work well in this state too, not to mention that her real magical weapons can just come out of nowhere when you least expect it!!

3- The Captain counts with magical shields (a blue bubble-like thing around her, visible only when it takes a hit) that are even stronger than the shields of an average Lallhyak. The only way to cause damage to this shield is by using the all-annihilating and soul-killing weapons that Lallhyaks and other similar Mages have... Non-magical attacks have no chance.

4- Even if you destroy her body, she would not care- A body-less Lallhyak can simply enter your own body and burn your soul from within, burning your body as well... Then, she can make a new body for herself appear out of nowhere when she wants.

5- The Captain, being a high-level Lallhyak, can choose to take the form of a Lyshayl flame and wrap herself around her enemies with unbelievable power.

6- Instead of killing her enemies or destroying their minds, a Lallhyak can simply choose to turn them into cookies, wine glasses, a pair of skis, crystal statues or anything else that she wants!!

7- If a Lallhyak wants it, a dragon or any other monster that she can think of will appear out of nowhere and attack you. She may use any crazy, reality-warping trick that she can imagine, even without saying words or using spells: All you see are violet sparks or a flash of white light, and poof! You are a cookie, or maybe you are trapped in a separate reality inside a crystal.

All of this would be without her real magical weapons (Lyshayl, for instance) and other things that Lallhyaks can do. Anti-magic forces would have no effect, because the only way to deal with these monstrosities is to hit them with the same magical, soul-killing and unstoppable weapons that they use to kill each other.

What do you think? Should I let the Captain enter the Wizard vs Wizard??

 

[ThinkerX]

All of this would be without her real magical weapons (Lyshayl, for instance) and other things that Lallhyaks can do. Anti-magic forces would have no effect, because the only way to deal with these monstrosities is to hit them with the same magical, soul-killing and unstoppable weapons that they use to kill each other.

Not sure about this. The beauty of the 'White Roses' (there were two, one historical, one contemporary, plus others implied in the series) was that ALL magic was negated in their presence. It simply stopped working. They were, essentially walking 'dead magic zones'. Hence, it seems to me any spell or creature conjured by your good (?) captain would simply 'fizzle out' - I think. Maybe. I don't know what it would do to the Captain.

Apart from the 'null field' though, the White Roses were ordinary people, though the contemporary one was well trained at arms and very good at tactics. The Lady did cancel the White Roses ...ability... via a 'true name spell' (which took some serious doing considering the White Rose was a deaf/mute peasant girl).

 

[Sheilawisz]

Then, we would have the laws and rules of both universes coming into contradiction:

The White Roses' ability to negate absolutely all Magic and, in the other hand, the absolute fact that a Lallhyak's only vulnerability are the same weapons that they use to fight and kill other Lallhyaks.

This is why these crossover comparisons are flawed, but it's fun anyway...

Maybe for a battle we would have to establish a new rule, like the anti-magic fields would work by repelling and confusing Lallhyaks but would fail to really stop them. Anyway, if the White Roses were ordinary people then they are not Wizards/Mages and cannot enter Wizard vs Wizard, I think.

If nobody suggests other battle, I want to have the Lady vs Gandalf next!!

 

[ThinkerX]

Now, I am still not sure about letting Captain Vaylaszkysh enter the magical frays of Wizard vs Wizard, even against powerful characters like Morgoth or the Dominator... This is a description of her basic magical capabilities:

1- She could enter a fight in the form of an invisible, untouchable presence. In this case most magical attacks like fireballs or lightning would not even touch her, beside the difficulty of fighting something that you cannot even see.

2- Even in this body-less state, she can deliver attacks of a terrible invisible force to tear her enemies to pieces, blow them up or just crush them. Her mind-destroying powers work well in this state too, not to mention that her real magical weapons can just come out of nowhere when you least expect it!!

3- The Captain counts with magical shields (a blue bubble-like thing around her, visible only when it takes a hit) that are even stronger than the shields of an average Lallhyak. The only way to cause damage to this shield is by using the all-annihilating and soul-killing weapons that Lallhyaks and other similar Mages have... Non-magical attacks have no chance.

4- Even if you destroy her body, she would not care- A body-less Lallhyak can simply enter your own body and burn your soul from within, burning your body as well... Then, she can make a new body for herself appear out of nowhere when she wants.

5- The Captain, being a high-level Lallhyak, can choose to take the form of a Lyshayl flame and wrap herself around her enemies with unbelievable power.

6- Instead of killing her enemies or destroying their minds, a Lallhyak can simply choose to turn them into cookies, wine glasses, a pair of skis, crystal statues or anything else that she wants!!

7- If a Lallhyak wants it, a dragon or any other monster that she can think of will appear out of nowhere and attack you. She may use any crazy, reality-warping trick that she can imagine, even without saying words or using spells: All you see are violet sparks or a flash of white light, and poof! You are a cookie, or maybe you are trapped in a separate reality inside a crystal.

All of this would be without her real magical weapons (Lyshayl, for instance) and other things that Lallhyaks can do. Anti-magic forces would have no effect, because the only way to deal with these monstrosities is to hit them with the same magical, soul-killing and unstoppable weapons that they use to kill each other.

Ok...are the stories featuring these all-powerful mages published or posted anywhere?

You seem to be playing around with what I think of as the 'dilemma of superiority'. As I envision it, the usual situation runs something like this:

The world or nation is faced with a devastating enemy - usually a 'dark lord'. A 'good guy' wizard of some stripe appears, who goes on to rapidly amass vast power. Eventually, the good guy wizard vanquishes the dark lord. Now the question is 'what then'? The good guy wizard has beaten the 'best of the worst'. In terms of sheer power, nothing can really challenge him, so how to continue with additional stories featuring the 'good guy wizard'?

The solutions I've seen include:

1) The handicap. Give the Good Guy Wizard a handicap in the next tale - he's injured, or he can't devote his full attention to the next villian because there is a supercritical superpowerful spell or ritual he has to see to in person.

2) Expand the horizons. A new bad guy from a distant part of the world, either unknown or barely alluded to, shows up and challenges the Good Guy Wizard to the next round.

3) The human angle. Give the good guy wizard a wife and a house full of screaming scheming kids to worry about. Time for earth shattering magic drops dramatically.

4) The obligation. A part of the good guy's magic comes not from within, but from without, and the source must be appeased/controlled somehow.

From what you've mentioned, options 1, 2 and 4 don't seem compatable with your world/system. You might be doing 3 - miring the mages down in domestic details, but I get the impression you have something else going on.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Thank you for your comments about my descriptions of Lallhyaks, ThinkerX =)

The stories featuring them are currently a trilogy, but I want to expand it to seven novels when I can. I have not published any of them, who knows, maybe someday... and about the world/system of these stories, it's like this:

The first novel starts with the Candles War between the two magical cities, a conflict that the Queen of Lisskalya and the Crown Princess of Lyflayrel were trying to stop because they were friends in secret. It's more similar to Romeo and Juliet than it is to Tolkien and other Fantasy works, with drama and romance and stuff.

Later in the series the Lallhyaks have trouble with similar Mages from other worlds, and yes, there is a kind-of Dark Lord character that eventually sends a large-scale attack against the Lallhyaks' world.

This is rather unusual Fantasy quite different to Tolkien style Fantasy, following a different type of world/system. I am sure that most Fantasy fans would not like it, so the probability of publishing it is very low in my opinion.