Writing What You Aint

[Karlin]

It will be hard, but I will try.

I am sure, if it came up that I was writing about a culture, or other aspect that was too far out of my reach, I would be doing a fair amount of research. Just included an amazonian culture, and did about 2 yrs of study on it (off and on). Is it right? surely not, is it good enough...I say so.

All this attention of how can I do this, and dare I even try when how can I know... I dare. Its just nature of the beast when attempts to be art imitating life.

Black, Lesbian, Cop with PTSD and Dyslexia....I am pretty sure I can come up with something close enough without having to live the life of a black, lesbian, cop with PTSD and Dyslexia culture.

I will accept a beta reader, but no on sensitivity readers.

I've done a similar amount of work studying Chinese culture. There's a lot I know, and I've managed to impress some of my Chinese acquaintances, yet I find that I'm still missing Things. Like- "who are those gods with the...". There's a limit to what one can do, but us writers have to achieve the "good enough".

A local Israeli author wrote a novel that takes place in Haifa, the town I live in. I heard him speak at an event sponsored by the Haifa Historical Society, which was attended by a group of older local residents in their 70's and 80's. They all congratulated him on the fine book, then ripped into him for getting so many details wrong. "I was in that teacher's class 60 years ago, and he didn't..."

 

[A. E. Lowan]

This does somewhat derail the thread, so apologies to the Dark One, but I am genuinely curious.

Close enough for what? Because I can imagine multiple different answers to that question and I'm pretty you are probably correct for some of them and almost certainly wrong for others.

Edit: I should have been asleep over an hour ago, so while I am curious to see your answer, there's no more live back and forth to be had now

For government work, pretty much. And to be fair, close enough is often as close as we can get to authenticity without telling own voices stories.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I've done a similar amount of work studying Chinese culture. There's a lot I know, and I've managed to impress some of my Chinese acquaintances, yet I find that I'm still missing Things. Like- "who are those gods with the...". There's a limit to what one can do, but us writers have to achieve the "good enough".

A local Israeli author wrote a novel that takes place in Haifa, the town I live in. I heard him speak at an event sponsored by the Haifa Historical Society, which was attended by a group of older local residents in their 70's and 80's. They all congratulated him on the fine book, then ripped into him for getting so many details wrong. "I was in that teacher's class 60 years ago, and he didn't..."

Poor man. I'm Irish. I was raised on the philosophy that you never let the truth get in the way of a good story... to an extent. There comes a time when you really do need to engage in some self-examination and decide if you're content with where you are, professionally and artistically. Nothing wrong with yes. It's just that self-awareness is good for you.

 

[pmmg]

For government work, pretty much. And to be fair, close enough is often as close as we can get to authenticity without telling own voices stories.

Yeah...I was not planning on answering that question, as I think the answer is already implied.

Close enough for government work is acceptable.

Ill add:

close enough that the reader will accept.
close enough that I could defend it.
close enough that it works for the story
close enough that it maintains the illusion
close enough that it portrays a relatable and understood character
close enough to pass.

Close enough that if you brought it to your Black, Lesbian, Cop, with PTSD and dyslexia friend, and asked if I got it all right? No....

Close enough that if I got 100 Black, Lesbian, Cops, with PTSD and Dyslexia to all read it, there would be mass disagreement on what was right and what was wrong...Yes.

Course, I find BLC w/PTSD and D, something I am confident I could do. I am sure there are things I would be less confident about. I am not opposed to research and feedback. I am opposed to sensitivity readers. If that is the road you want to be on, by all means. Its not for me.

 

[Queshire]

Man, if you want to see what close enough looks like from the other side then I'd suggest taking a look at how 'MURICANS are portrayed in Anime & Manga.

 

[Miles Lacey]

Ahhh... I should point out one detail about the "close enough" argument....

Remember that non-binary, lesbian, black Chicago police officer with PTSD and dyslexia? That person took about thirty seconds to conjure up. Yet, the moment they popped into my head that character was an individual.

I don't know what to call a non-binary person who is attracted to women so I used the term "lesbian" as the character who popped into my head was a more feminine looking character.

Let's say there's twenty police officers in my fictional version of Chicago who are also non-binary, lesbian and black with PTSD and dyslexia. Every one of those police officers will be different.

Which neighbourhood were they brought up in? Was it a neighbourhood people wanted to move into or one they would've done just about anything to get out of? Did they feel safe in that neighbourhood? Did they get on with others in the neighbourhoods? What type of family were they raised in? Was it a violent or abusive home environment or a loving home environment? What schools did they attend? Were they good, bad or mediocre schools? Did their teachers identify their dyslexia early enough that they could work out how to work around it? How did they discover they were non-binary or when did they decide to identify as such? Does being non-binary, black and attracted to women impact upon the way they're treated by friends, family, neighbours, superiors and colleagues? How did they end up with PTSD? Was it the result of a traumatic event or an accumulation of events? Who do they hang out with? Where do they hang out? What do they like to wear when not in uniform? Where do they live now? What's the place like? Does their income cover their bills? Do they take bribes? Do they operate legal or illegal side gigs to supplement their Incomes? Do they have a relationship? If so, what is that relationship like? If not, why not? Ditto for children? Do they attend religious services? If so, which ones? Do they agree with those religious teachings? Do they vote? If so, do they vote Democrat or Republican? Why do they vote the way they do? Are they conservative? Are they liberal? Are they conservative on some issues and liberal on others? What sort of things make them horny? What turns them off? Do they have a fetish? Do they avoid sex? Do they pay women to have sex with them? Do women pay them for sex? What are their views on crime, law and order, gun laws, porn, sex and marriage?

None of those twenty non-binary, black, lesbian Chicago police officers who have PTSD and dyslexia will have identical or even similar answers to these questions, especially if they're scattered across various precincts. So how can anyone possibly think that one of those people are able to represent or speak for all, or most, people within that group? The only exception to this is if those twenty people choose one of their own to speak on their behalf.

This is why I have issues with sensitive readers and others who look for things that could cause potential offence or run foul of the toxic cancel, litigation and sexual/moral puritanical cultures that blight the United States - and the English-speaking world in general thanks to the American chokehold on the Internet.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Man, if you want to see what close enough looks like from the other side then I'd suggest taking a look at how 'MURICANS are portrayed in Anime & Manga.

*snort* *chortle* *cough*

Sorry, was that out loud?

I mean... MURICA! *waves tiny flag*

 

[Finchbearer]

I’ve been delving a little bit into Ursula K le Guin, because, shame on me, although I’ve always known about the Earthsea series, I have never really read any of her work. Anyway, her opinions on fantasy and SF as a genre have kind of thrown me for a loop, and I feel roasted after reading this;

Some assumptions are commonly made about fantasy that bother me. These assumptions may be made by the author, or by the packagers of the book, or both, and they bother me both as a writer and as a reader of fantasy. They involve who the characters are, when and where they are, and what they do. Put crudely, it’s like this: in fantasy, 1) the characters are white, 2) they live sort of in the Middle Ages, and 3) they’re fighting in a Battle Between Good and Evil.

Now this is an excerpt from a talk on Assumptions about Fantasy, and she goes more in depth on this topic. Anyway, this is something I am giving some consideration to. Not all my characters are white or my stories always set in a Middle Ages type era, but maybe I can open my mind a bit more.