Your Most Hated Tropes

[Mad Swede]

Love and valueing life is not Christian, tho. That's a common human experience.

We are talking about Western literature so the idea of love, that life is immensely valuable and that this world is an extraordinarily beautiful place is Christian in origin. The fact that this view is shared with religions elsewhere in the world makes it common to many people.

He doesn't put in Jesus-allergories like Lewis and Tolkien did for example and Tolkien's depiction of the elves are immensely orientated on Christian, very conservative values.

Tolkien's elves are based on Celtic legends, specifically the Tuatha Dé Danann who in Irish mythology are semi-divine beings who come from across the sea to Ireland and burn their ships on arrival.

There are no specific Christ-like figures in The Lord of the Rings, although some scholars argue that elements of Christ can be found in several different characters and that these could be taken to be a reference to the threefold Messianic symbolism found in the Old Testament. This argument is based on a very deep and not entirely uncontroversial religious and philosophical analysis of the book, and it wasn't a view Tolkien agreed with.

As for The Chronicles of Narnia, C S Lewis specifically denied that Aslan (or indeed any other character in the books) was an allegory for God or Christ. If anything, Aslan is an example of supposition and inclusivism (and the latter is an anathema to many Christians irrespective of denomination).

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

We are talking about Western literature so the idea of love, that life is immensely valuable and that this world is an extraordinarily beautiful place is Christian in origin. The fact that this view is shared with religions elsewhere in the world makes it common to many people.

As for The Chronicles of Narnia, C S Lewis specifically denied that Aslan (or indeed any other character in the books) was an allegory for God or Christ. If anything, Aslan is an example of supposition and inclusivism (and the latter is an anathema to many Christians irrespective of denomination).

Interesting tidbit but, my parents try to supposition Christian 'inspiration' into everything. (to the point where even kid me was annoyed by it)
I'm personally fine with it but like bro that's not why the author/film maker/show writer included those bits.
Though it does depend on the author.

Funniest moment of this was my parents tryina say that the Avengers Endgame was about the four horsemen. Can't tell how accurate that one was but I was really unsure of that claim, even if Big Stan had Christian beliefs and left little bits in his writing.

I'm in the camp that if an author / writer wants to include their religion/ religious references in their work in some way let em. But that doesn't mean that everything they write contains references/allegories to their religion. even if they were somewhat inspired by it.

I can usually tell when a Religious reference is being made, but I don't go 'oh that's my personal belief, totally' because I find that bit rather silly to do.

 

[Mad Swede]

Interesting tidbit

The trouble is, things like supposition and inclusivism are not tidbits in C S Lewis writings. So many people get blinded by the fact that he was a Christian apologist that they miss the fact the C S Lewis was primarily a philosopher. The Chronicles of Narnia may contain some Christian elements, but most readers completely miss the more numerous philosophical elements in the books.

 

[Queshire]

Oh? What's this?

Man... All the Christian stuff in Marvel comics is... a lot.

You've got the One Above All which is basically Big-G with the numbers filed off (who is also an expy of the writers) but then you got all the religious stuff surrounding Ghost Rider which is entirely separate from the One Above All and then there's also a bunch of different demons & devils like Mephisto who sometimes claim to be Satan but only to trick people.

EDIT: Personally my setting has ended up with a lot more angels, devils, etc than I was originally planning, though it's purposefully in response to how it influences things like the Marvel comics or D&D's planes.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

The trouble is, things like supposition and inclusivism are not tidbits in C S Lewis writings. So many people get blinded by the fact that he was a Christian apologist that they miss the fact the C S Lewis was primarily a philosopher. The Chronicles of Narnia may contain some Christian elements, but most readers completely miss the more numerous philosophical elements in the books.

I mean I saw the movie as someone raised as a Christian, and still am one.
But even kid me was like 'ok BUT, there's some other stuff here too' and my parents just eyerolled me.
I've typically tried to view everything in a wider lens than my parents.

Oh? What's this?

Man... All the Christian stuff in Marvel comics is... a lot.

You've got the One Above All which is basically Big-G with the numbers filed off (who is also an expy of the writers) but then you got all the religious stuff surrounding Ghost Rider which is entirely separate from the One Above All and then there's also a bunch of different demons & devils like Mephisto who sometimes claim to be Satan but only to trick people.

EDIT: Personally my setting has ended up with a lot more angels, devils, etc than I was originally planning, though it's purposefully in response to how it influences things like the Marvel comics or D&D's planes.

See that stuff I'm aware of.
At least like, most of it anyhow.
I was talking about their claim of Endgame being 'about' the four horsemen though. I could see it being about the 'end times' and all, but I'm not sure about the four horsemen exclusively. If that makes sense.

 

[pmmg]

Uhhh..I dont think I will be looking to Marvel for Christian values.

While, normally, I will say, don't discount your parents. They were your age once, and you were never theirs. But...I am a little fuzzy on four horsemen stuff in the marvel/Thanos struggle. Course...marvel is not my thing. I only saw it once a very long time ago.

I am sure that marvel creators, in their effort to find cool and interesting stuff, have lifted from Christian lore many times, and the four horsemen is strong symbol many like to use. But Marvel is one who just puts their finger in the air and tries to match where the wind is blowing.

I dont really know how long this thread can go on without getting into stuff the site does not really want.

Christianity has shaped the world and the culture, and holds up to the scrutiny of many many years. It cannot be gotten rid of. That is shows up in the work of others, in their themes and worldviews is only to be expected. People are shaped by their culture and their religions. Its not surprising that it shows up in their writing.

The claim from Mrs Owlbear what that is was covert. An attempt to infuse Christianity into a story in a stealthy way. I don't think Tolkien or Lewis were attempting to do that. You may not like Christianity, its values, or its adherents, but stealthy they have not been.

For those engaged in stealthy endeavors, its not just Christians who do it. Just in this case, they are being singled out. In fact, most of our entertainment is engaged in discounting religion, presenting it falsely, and shading it badly. Secular values are often on display as the prominent, goodly, values that are meant to prevail. Sometimes its stealthy, sometimes overt. I mean...welcome to the world. And...these representations have shaped many.

If one does not like stories with Christian themes, I mean...no crime in that. Like what you want and consume the media that appeals. But the world is full of stuff, and Christians have something to say, so...I support them saying it, and I hope they do it in a competent way.

I dont like to focus on the stuff I don't like. I am not sure why I even spoke up in a 'most hated' thread anyway.

/out

 

[Reverie_everbleedingheart]

I can't stand a damsel in distress trope or a love triangle. The only and I mean ONLY way I could ever get behind a love triangle is it is done properly, person 1 loves person 2 but so does person 3, with person 2 not knowing who to choose that is an open polyline. When person 1 loves person 2, but person 2 loves person 3, and person 3 loves person 1 that is a love triangle I can get behind. Especially if they all get together in the end.