Tried of vampires being goody two-shoes?

[murersr]

Who here hates that vampires have been reduced to glittering vegans?

 

[Gurkhal]

You can count me in for this! I always envision vampires as fundamentally evil creatures, no matter what pretentions they might have.

 

[Sparkie]

There's a word for beings that feed off of the lifeblood of others... Lawyers. Oh, wait! Sorry, wrong forum!

 

[Chilari]

Yes! I am so sick of seeing shelves of "paranormal romance" where the fainting, sighing protagonist gets herself a vampire boyfriend like it's edgy or dark anymore. It was kind of a bit lame when Buffy did it (though Buffy had plenty of redeeming features), but now it's positively dull. I want to see more stories that are true fantasy - set in worlds not our own at the least - in which evil bloodsucking creatures of the night (no, not lawyers, Sparkie) are a true, sinister threat, with, worst of all, the ability to seduce the target rather than having to chase them - and not falling in love with them but just to bite them and drain them dry. If there's an obsession involved, it should be with the one that got away, that resisted the almost magical ability to seduce or something else interrupted before the vamp could bite, and not have that obsession turn to love, but rather just be a hunter/prey situation, with a kill or be killed solution.

 

[Feo Takahari]

Let's dig deeper--why are vampires nice now? My conjecture is that we're no longer afraid of whatever vampires represent. I'm fond of David Dvorkin's ideas on the subject:

There was a time when night and the dark were feared and avoided. This wasn't entirely because of superstition. People wandering away from human settlement and manmade light were in genuine danger. Vampires were only one of the dangers hiding in the night.

But vampires weren't just creatures of the night, they were also its victims. They were exiles. They were being punished by being excluded from society and light and warmth. There was a religious aspect to this: they were deprived of the light created by God and of the sight of God's creation. So vampires, banished into the darkness, were being punished by never being able to see the day, God's glorious light, or the world created by God.

In modern urban life, however, nightlife doesn't equal danger or exile. Rather, it represents excitement, freedom, and limitless possibilities. At night, the familiar world of daytime changes into a place of enticing mysteries, new adventures, intriguing shadows, and, perhaps, erotic encounters. Who is more at home in this world than the vampire?

He has gone from being the ultimate predator to being the ultimate outlaw. The former figure was terrifying; the latter is fascinating. Instead of fleeing from him, we are drawn to him because we want to be like him.

(Of course, there's also the recurrent idea that vampires represent our fear of foreigners, homosexuals, and/or Democrats.)

P.S. If there's one thing I really want to get away from, it's vampires as sex symbols. Good sex, bad sex, any sex--leave that to the living. (Can they even get it up when they're constantly in need of blood?)

 

[wordwalker]

At the risk of heresy: I think it's a valid concept and could produce a few good tales, if they really dug into what it means to be a killer who wants other things instead/ as well. Anne Rice had her vision, and early Laurel Hamilton could be downright chilling.

In fact, Bella supposedly lived in fear that a paper cut would make Edward go berserk...

BUT, the stories keep making it too easy, with the creature that's "supposed to be" dangerous really just a wish-fulfillment of the girl finding it can work. It's not too bad a concept, just attracts bad writing.

A lot of bad writing. And, it's irritating that this many hacks have set up shop on a concept just because it's actually the opposite of what they want, just so every one of them can get credit for inverting it-- way worse than what Stormtrooper Marksmanship does to the idea of armed combat.

 

[MadMadys]

I think I'm bored of vampires in general. A bit played out for my taste for the time being.


Also, I understand the irony of me saying this with a vampire for an avatar so no need to point it out.

 

[Steerpike]

There are plenty of books with vampires as horrible, nasty, scary things, if you want to find them.

 

[Wanara009]

I generally don't like vampire. Granted, I'll be the first to throw myself to the ground and sing praise for Alucard of the Hellsing manga but that's about it. Maybe because I'm raised in a culture where the undead is not glamourous but either f ***ing funny or f***ing terrifying. Whenever I read about a paranormal romance involving vampire, I'm either picturing a hilarious scene that spoils the mood or wondering why the hero/ine isn't pissing in his/her pants right now.

Furthermore, I'm a science student. Whenever I read a paranormal romance, the only thing going through my mind is: "You won't be having children. If they do, enjoy your sterile and probably horrifically mutated baby, you sad sod." Also, it might be because I find 'true love' indistinguishable from brain damage but that's just me.

 

[Jabrosky]

People can write whatever they want, but I never cared for vampires. Sexy vampires even less, because I like my ladies live.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Who here hates that vampires have been reduced to glittering vegans?

Okay, so I recently watched all the Twilight movies, because I wanted to be able to talk about Twilight and actually know what I'm talking about?

Two things:

1: I don't get why people hate on the sparkling thing. It's actually a pretty interesting idea, because it kinda ties in with how vampirism works in Twilight. (Their biologies are basically "frozen", or crystalized. Hence why they are cold to touch and extremely durable, etc.) It's not even much of an issue most of the time and when it is, Meyer uses it more as a plot device for why they can't show themselves in the daytime, rather than a way of going "Oh! Pretty sparkly vampires!" It's just this random, fairly unimportant detail that everyone went totally insane over for some reason.

2: The Cullen coven pretty much are vampire vegans, literally - their "don't eat people" philosophy is very extremist by vampire standards. Edward compares their life-style to a human surviving on nothing but tofu. (Only worse because actual vegans don't go crazy from bloodlust if they smell a steak.) It's not at all standard vampire behavior, even the reasonably "good" vampires do feed on humans.

And don't get me started on the Volturi. Those guys are monsters. They eat entire families including children, for crying out loud. You want evil vampires? Well, there you go.

You don't have to like Twilight - dammit, I don't like Twilight - but please use better arguments than "it turned all vampires everywhere into lemonade-drinking nancies" because that just isn't true.

 

[Steerpike]

True, Anders. Not to mention that the paranormal vampire romance thing was around before Twilight. It was just never as popular as it was after Twilight (even considering Buffy and the paranormal vampire romances that pre-date Buffy). I think the problem most people have is less with the idea itself, but with the proliferation of it, to the extent that many people feel it has been done to death (though obviously there are a large number of people who do not). Also, aspiring writers are a pretty judgmental lot, particularly when it comes to success. If you want to see any successful literary trend trashed, look at the nearest forum full of aspiring writers

Actually, if the energy spent complaining about vampire paranormal romance was put into finding books where vampires are horrific, a person could find plenty of them.

 

[Mindfire]

I hate the sparkling thing because it takes the vampire's greatest weakness and turns it into a minor annoyance, essentially making them unkillable, which is not only bloody cheating, but boring as well. What's the point of a vampire that can't be hunted down and killed? Oh right, teen girl wish fulfillment. No thanks.

[rant]Vampires represent evil. (Their greatest weakness is the sun, i.e. the holy light of God.) And therefore by extension an unkillable and incurable vampire represents that evil is not just desirable, but impossible to defeat or overcome. This is (one of the reasons) why I hate Twilight. It's a dumb teen love letter to the final triumph of evil. [/rant]

 

[danr62]

I hate the sparkling thing because it takes the vampire's greatest weakness and turns it into a minor annoyance, essentially making them unkillable, which is not only bloody cheating, but boring as well. What's the point of a vampire that can't be hunted down and killed? Oh right, teen girl wish fulfillment. No thanks.

[rant]Vampires represent evil. (Their greatest weakness is the sun, i.e. the holy light of God.) And therefore by extension an unkillable and incurable vampire represents that evil is not just desirable, but impossible to defeat or overcome. This is (one of the reasons) why I hate Twilight. It's a dumb teen love letter to the final triumph of evil. [/rant]

Twilight isn't about the triumph of evil, it's about a group of vampires who overcome their base, evil nature and choose to be good instead. It's kind of a redemption story if you think about it.

Every one of us has the potential for great evil. People can be monsters more horrific than anything you read in a book. Yet most of us are good because we follow the norms of society and choose to be good. The Cullens were from a society where the norms were to be evil, and chose to go against the grain.

I'm not a Twilight fan, although my wife is. I just think it goes deeper than "vampires are evil".

 

[Steerpike]

I hate the sparkling thing because it takes the vampire's greatest weakness and turns it into a minor annoyance, essentially making them unkillable, which is not only bloody cheating, but boring as well. What's the point of a vampire that can't be hunted down and killed? Oh right, teen girl wish fulfillment. No thanks.

I'm guessing you haven't read it. They can be killed, and in fact one is in the first book.

EDIT: To echo was danr62 said - the triumph of evil statement is way off. I'm not sure how that could be the take-away, honestly.

 

[Anders Ämting]

I hate the sparkling thing because it takes the vampire's greatest weakness and turns it into a minor annoyance, essentially making them unkillable,

Yeah, because a perfected apex predator having a devastatingly fatal weakness that provides its specific prey a fighting chance makes so much more sense.

Also, vampires who can walk around in the sunlight without instantly bursting into flames has never ever been done before Twilight, ever. Well, except for Count Dracula, but it's not like he counts for anything, amiright?

Really, it's not the fact that they can survive sunlight most people are complaining about, but specifically that they sparkle. I just don't get it.

which is not only bloody cheating, but boring as well. What's the point of a vampire that can't be hunted down and killed?

You and I clearly have different ideas of what counts as "boring." You know what I find boring? Being able to completely destroy an ancient, superhuman monster by walking up to the nearest window, throwing the curtains open and going: "It's a bit stuffy in here, don't you agree?"

Anyway, Twilight vamps can totes be killed, that's the whole reason they go to such lenghts to stay hidden. Aro, the head honcho evil vampire, specifically states that human technology had advanced to the point where they simply couldn't afford an outing.

(It doesn't help that they are absurdly flammable. You can seriously set these guys completely ablaze by throwing a zippo lighter at them.)

So yeah. Set their dwelling on fire, hit them with a rocket launcher, bomb their house, use ancient Native American magic to turn into a giant wolf and then bite their heads off, etc. It's doable.

 

[Ireth]

Interesting thread. My vampires pretty much run the gamut between "evil, soulless monsters who live to kill" and "those who don't want to eat humans", with several in between. The more they drink human blood, the more evil they get, as mandated by the goddess who cursed the first vampire. I do try to avoid the angst with regards to my hero, and he does have the potential for a love story, though it's with another vampire (and a male one, to boot) rather than with a human.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Actually, I had an idea for how vampires could work, which I'm thinking about using in a story at some point.

Basically, vampires have two "stages." If you are turned into a vampire while still alive, your body remains alive. You are a "living vampire", so to speak. These would be your eternally youthful, attractive and emotional "modern" type of vampires without a lot of serious drawbacks. They can be good or bad people, but they are ultimately people.

However, if their bodies are killed, they rise in their second stage as "dead vampires" and their minds and bodies both start to degrade. These would be your monsterous evil undead Nosferatu kind of deal.

 

[murersr]

One of my goals for my book is to return the vampires to their rightful place. They are going to be hunger and hiding in the millions. The task is going to be so daunting that my heroines must go to desperate measures in order to secure the situation. Now has "vampires" become its own genre, it has become so saturated. Really watered-down material. So I must creative and to think outside the box. My plan is to explore the themes of desperation, guilt, and other uglier emotions.The focus will be the main leads and how the going to answer to the (former) citizens they were sworn to protect. Basically, they are going to face the music about waiting so long to deal with the growing problem.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't get a thrill knowing my name is quite similiar to the author who started this mess (of vampires suddenly become glittering vegan romantic interest).

 

[Steerpike]

Meyer didn't start it. Vampire paranormal romance goes back nearly ten years before her that I've seen. I don't count Rice