Benjamin Clayborne
Auror
You guys strongly give the impression that you need to prove others wrong.
Nope. Merely introducing some memes that might be new to some people.
You guys strongly give the impression that you need to prove others wrong.
You guys strongly give the impression that you need to prove others wrong.
Belief systems are often quite complex and rooted in one's identity; it would be extremely difficult to defend or justify many of them adequately within the confines of a few forum posts.
Why does it matter who brings their thoughts to the table? What gives you the right to restrict what we post? Especially considering you tried to do so on moral grounds, which now seem to have disappeared from your argument.So I don't understand why those beliefs need to be challenged and put down. There are plenty of others, with beliefs similar to your own, who will undoubtedly share their thoughts as well. Give them that chance.
Why does it matter who brings their thoughts to the table? What gives you the right to restrict what we post? Especially considering you tried to do so on moral grounds, which now seem to have disappeared from your argument.
All I did was propose a rule; I haven't even pushed it. I am honestly at a loss as to what you mean by "moral grounds." I was just pointing out that it seemed excessive and unnecessary and a little hostile to confront fairly sparse religious statements as if they were meant to prove anything.
A rule that goes against the fundamental point of a forum. You were coming to the defence of a user that didn't really need to be defended, and discouraging discussion because it might offend someone (which would be understandable if users were being insulting, but nobody was).
I didn't really come to mythique's defense, in the sense that I haven't supported her actual statements.
My concern is only the vibe and atmosphere of this thread and its impact on the community's willingness to share their rather personal, intimate views. That's all.
As I've heard Richard Dawkins (and others) suggest, tolerance is not respect. Saying 'I know that my faith is true, but you can believe what ever you want to believe' is actually quite condescending. I think it's far more respectful to say 'I think you're wrong, and this is why' (not that I've even been that aggressive).
Yeah, but Dawkins and others actually make that statement as an argument against certain religions because of how those religions are thought to view non-believers. But as Telcontar mentioned, everyone in some way has their own religion, and I'll add that even the official versions of those religions often give more space to members of differing belief systems than is commonly understood. It might not really be condescending at all.
But it's just as likely to be condescending to say, prove your beliefs to me right here, right now, in a forum post, in front of everyone, while we team up and challenge the logic behind them. I feel like that's what's happened.
But it's just as likely to be condescending to say, prove your beliefs to me right here, right now, in a forum post, in front of everyone, while we team up and challenge the logic behind them. I feel like that's what's happened.
How is it condescending to question a belief? I would argue that if people didn't want to discuss their opinions, they shouldn't bring it to a discussion forum, but I'll settle on saying that if they do have a problem, they're free to say so. And it's not like we intended to 'team-up' on anyone, so why are you equating what seems to have been a perfectly civil discussion as bullying?
On an unrelated note:
Has anyone noticed when someone tries to defend their point of view on well... just about anything considered a "Button Issue" They get ultra defensive?
In many cases, though certainly not all, the person isn't entirely grounded in their own belief, or they haven't given a substantial amount of thought to it, or they are unable to articulate it and defend it in a logical manner. Because of this, even if the belief can stand up to scrutiny, the individual person isn't able to adequately defend it. It makes them feel foolish, and then angry, because they're adopting a position they can't defend (or for which they cannot articulate a defense).
((edit)) I'm sorry, thread hijack complete, I won't post again unless it's to share my own beliefs.
I only just noticed this. I think it's fair to continue posting (providing you want to), because now we're getting on to the discussion of whether religion is fair game for debate, which is somewhat relevant to the original topic.
And I have to agree with The Blue Lotus. I wish all debates were this calm and collected. Face-to-face debates usually get more heated because people don't have time to consider their points before making them, which leads to mistakes and misinterpretations. This leads to frustration, and the easiest place to direct that frustration is to the person opposite.
I agree completely but I have studied and supported my faith a majority of my life, after all it is the deciding factor on how you live. And I believe my faith to be very logical nad thought out. However, I have encountered many who have so many questions that they literally fall apart the second anyone challenges them with supposed evidence.In many cases, though certainly not all, the person isn't entirely grounded in their own belief, or they haven't given a substantial amount of thought to it, or they are unable to articulate it and defend it in a logical manner. Because of this, even if the belief can stand up to scrutiny, the individual person isn't able to adequately defend it. It makes them feel foolish, and then angry, because they're adopting a position they can't defend (or for which they cannot articulate a defense).
I also believe that you cannot get to heaven by works but by faith.
What about those who are brought up in an environment in which they are not exposed to the belief in a Christian God, and have not been given the opportunity to attain faith? Does their lack of knowledge deny them entrance in to heaven?
The Grey Sage said:Devil's handmaiden? That's kinda harsh... but I understnad the view. I believe that there is one path to salvation: through Christ. I do believe that there are ways for a person to not know the name of Jesus, but have his entire story and believe, and be saved. Salvation isn't in the name but in God.