Be honest, how ‘beautiful’ is your protagonist?

[Finchbearer]

I hate Rowling, but I actually disagree with this!

What were you disagreeing with?

I’m certainty not of the opinion that beautiful = good and ugly = bad, in fact I think it’s far more nuanced and tertiary than that, it’s just what I have observed in fiction (and on screen) with it being a poorly thought out plot device for some writers, requiring a lack of deeper thought into the issues surrounding what we take as face value, and what we value in people.

It’s never as black and white as ‘beautiful’ and ‘ugly’ for me either, it was just a way to describe the thread and open up a conversation.

 

[Fyri]

What were you disagreeing with?

Oh, I was disagreeing with it being bad writing on its own. I think it can be a useful tactic. It can be written badly, but use of the trope/cliche itself isn't bad writing.

Rowling describing Umbridge as pig-faced and Snape as greasy haired/crooked nosed and connecting these traits to being negative shows how the child protagonist feels about the characters--their first impression is that these characters rub them the wrong way. However, Hermione was also meant to be ugly in the beginning, and that was an interesting choice.

 

[Aldarion]

Well, at this point my protagonist is likely to be based on Cu Chulainn, so... pretty boy, basically. At least, until you get him mad - though I am not sure yet if I will be including warp spasms into the story. I probably will, though - they fit some aspects of the dark magic in the story I am considering, and having protagonist be basically a dark magic user and having to constantly fight against corruption might be interesting.

 

[Finchbearer]

Well, at this point my protagonist is likely to be based on Cu Chulainn, so... pretty boy, basically. At least, until you get him mad - though I am not sure yet if I will be including warp spasms into the story. I probably will, though - they fit some aspects of the dark magic in the story I am considering, and having protagonist be basically a dark magic user and having to constantly fight against corruption might be interesting.

Oooh that sounds a little like one of my protagonists, I’m intrigued.

 

[Aldarion]

Oooh that sounds a little like one of my protagonists, I’m intrigued.

Unfortunately, that is as far as I had gotten for now. I still need to do more research on Irish mythology... specifically the Cycle of the Gods and the Ulster Cycle.

 

[Finchbearer]

Unfortunately, that is as far as I had gotten for now. I still need to do more research on Irish mythology... specifically the Cycle of the Gods and the Ulster Cycle.

That is certainly an interesting mythology, but I was more intrigued by the pretty boy who dabbles in the dark arts who sails too close to the edge at times.

 

[mbox]

My MC is described a fit with a wiry frame. In his mid-twenties, he has a fair share of scars (particularly on his face) from several battles. His short-cropped hair is typically under a wide-brimmed hat.
He's never described as being particularly handsome or ugly (although he's sensitive about his scars)...it really seems to be up to character if they see him as beautiful, ugly, or neutral.

 

[Aldarion]

That is certainly an interesting mythology, but I was more intrigued by the pretty boy who dabbles in the dark arts who sails too close to the edge at times.

As I said, the description provided is kinda about all that I have for now when it comes to how magic influences him. In particular, I want to understand Cu Chulainn's warp spasms better before I commit to properly developing my protagonist. Corruptive influence of said dark magic right now I imagine as something similar to Chaos influence from Warhammer 40k, but that is far from final.

When it comes to generalities however, you would have white magic and dark magic. White magic is essentially nature magic: using the environment to your advantage. For example, plant magic would allow user to use trees to feel who is moving in the forest, and water magic would allow user to feel water - water currents, water in the plants and beings (plant magic is a variation of water magic, btw).

Dark magic however would involve "warping" the nature to user's will; consequently, it would have something of an "industrial" feel to it, in addition to being more obviously supernatural. It is far more obvious, and potentially more powerful, but also very dangerous for the user. And "warping the nature" also involves warping the user himself: warp spasms are one aspect, but badly done dark magic can permanently warp the user, essentially turning him into a lesser demon.

 

[Finchbearer]

As I said, the description provided is kinda about all that I have for now when it comes to how magic influences him. In particular, I want to understand Cu Chulainn's warp spasms better before I commit to properly developing my protagonist. Corruptive influence of said dark magic right now I imagine as something similar to Chaos influence from Warhammer 40k, but that is far from final.

When it comes to generalities however, you would have white magic and dark magic. White magic is essentially nature magic: using the environment to your advantage. For example, plant magic would allow user to use trees to feel who is moving in the forest, and water magic would allow user to feel water - water currents, water in the plants and beings (plant magic is a variation of water magic, btw).

Dark magic however would involve "warping" the nature to user's will; consequently, it would have something of an "industrial" feel to it, in addition to being more obviously supernatural. It is far more obvious, and potentially more powerful, but also very dangerous for the user. And "warping the nature" also involves warping the user himself: warp spasms are one aspect, but badly done dark magic can permanently warp the user, essentially turning him into a lesser demon.

Very interesting. It sounds like you’re playing with stewardship of nature as at least one theme there. I always seem to be drawn to woodland and forests in my stories, it feels like a good epicentre for metaphorical storytelling, plus I really like forests.

It sounds similar to my protagonist in the sense that he certainly has many moments where he takes his dark arts just a little too far, but darkness in my world is not necessarily always evil or corrupting, just…dark. Kind of like what Nietzsche said about staring into the abyss and it looking back if stared at for too long.

 

[Aldarion]

Very interesting. It sounds like you’re playing with stewardship of nature as at least one theme there. I always seem to be drawn to woodland and forests in my stories, it feels like a good epicentre for metaphorical storytelling, plus I really like forests.

It sounds similar to my protagonist in the sense that he certainly has many moments where he takes his dark arts just a little too far, but darkness in my world is not necessarily always evil or corrupting, just…dark. Kind of like what Nietzsche said about staring into the abyss and it looking back if stared at for too long.

My idea was - though I didn't actually actively realize it until now, LOL! - basically "persuasion vs compulsion". You can use nature's magic gently, which limits the power you may have but is also safe; or you can force it to bend to your will, which can result in more power but also less controllability and more danger for the user.

But yeah, it definitely is a theme.

 

[Finchbearer]

My idea was - though I didn't actually actively realize it until now, LOL! - basically "persuasion vs compulsion". You can use nature's magic gently, which limits the power you may have but is also safe; or you can force it to bend to your will, which can result in more power but also less controllability and more danger for the user.

But yeah, it definitely is a theme.

Sounds like horticulture !

 

[TheKillerBs]

Rowling describing Umbridge as pig-faced and Snape as greasy haired/crooked nosed and connecting these traits to being negative shows how the child protagonist feels about the characters--their first impression is that these characters rub them the wrong way. However, Hermione was also meant to be ugly in the beginning, and that was an interesting choice.

Umbridge is described as toad-faced, ackshually. And Hermione is meant to be seen as plain, not ugly. Regardless of Harry's opinion of her as a person, the salient features he always emphasises are the buck teeth and the bushy hair, right up until she gets her teeth fixed and then the bushy hair gets emphasised more (and usually negatively). We also know because he says so that his opinion of her looks when she hasn't spent hours applying literally magical beautifying techniques to herself is that he doesn't think she's ugly.

Pedantry and shipping wars aside, your point is very solid and one that fanfic authors have latched onto when the main pairing involves characters that are canonically described as unattractive.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I was thinking about this, and for my stories most of my characters are a bit all over the place. Certainly, I've had heroes with scarred faces and crippled, and villains who are impossibly beautiful (it's part of what makes them a villain). But there is one trait that's sort of connected which I'm a little less variable on. I don't write short characters. My MC's may not be tall, in fact I strive to make them sort of average in most cases, but they're never short. The reason, I think, outside of my own personal biases, is that to be blunt short doesn't sell. I think most readers (male) would refuse to relate to a man of shorter stature - and lets not forget getting your readers to relate to your characters is a part of the game. You can get away with scars and crippling injuries because they're challenges to overcome and part of back story / character. Height, however, is a little more tricky. Especially I think when writing fantasy.

But that's just my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Hi,

I was thinking about this, and for my stories most of my characters are a bit all over the place. Certainly, I've had heroes with scarred faces and crippled, and villains who are impossibly beautiful (it's part of what makes them a villain). But there is one trait that's sort of connected which I'm a little less variable on. I don't write short characters. My MC's may not be tall, in fact I strive to make them sort of average in most cases, but they're never short. The reason, I think, outside of my own personal biases, is that to be blunt short doesn't sell. I think most readers (male) would refuse to relate to a man of shorter stature - and lets not forget getting your readers to relate to your characters is a part of the game. You can get away with scars and crippling injuries because they're challenges to overcome and part of back story / character. Height, however, is a little more tricky. Especially I think when writing fantasy.

But that's just my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else.

Cheers, Greg.

What's funny about this is we also have a whole lot of tall characters, lots of fae and dragons and just good dips in the gene pool. But, that being said, the male character who is the fan fave, who's regarded as the hottest and the sexiest and most dangerous is about 5'6". He remembers being taller, but that was eleven centuries ago. He looks up at people when he's threatening them, he pulls his lovers down to kiss them, so there is no mistake, this man is short. The ldies line up, anyway.

 

[Queshire]

I'm bad about remembering to think about height when writing characters, but I almost always play the short race in an MMO if it's an option.

 

[Gurkhal]

I haven't thought much about it so I imagine that most characters are about average in looks. It only becomes a topic of they are significantly more beautiful or ugly than average as that will have an impact on their interactions with others.

 

[The Dark One]

My male MCs are never described as beautiful but most are athletic and physically talented. The MCs of my last two novels (speculative fiction / sci-fi) are both described as ordinary looking and both have a lack of confidence with women. My female MCs however tend to be attractive in an unconventional way. One is described (in a crime novel) as looking a bit like an alien pixie.

I was a little disturbed when a female reviewer of my latest book described it (among other things) as catering to the sexual fantasies of young males. It was a very positive 5 star review but that comment shocked me as it certainly was not what I set out to achieve. I wonder what that therefore says about me and my underlying narrative?

 

[Finchbearer]

What's funny about this is we also have a whole lot of tall characters, lots of fae and dragons and just good dips in the gene pool. But, that being said, the male character who is the fan fave, who's regarded as the hottest and the sexiest and most dangerous is about 5'6". He remembers being taller, but that was eleven centuries ago. He looks up at people when he's threatening them, he pulls his lovers down to kiss them, so there is no mistake, this man is short. The ldies line up, anyway.

5”6 isn’t short! One of my male protagonists is of average height at maybe around 5”8 rather than being super tall. Also, just sayin, short / petite doesn’t mean someone is lacking in anything, and someone who is below average height doesn’t have to make up for being shorter in stature with a bunch of other stuff either.

I’m also gonna say…Thorin Oakenshield is hot!

 

[The Dark One]

5”6 isn’t short! One of my male protagonists is of average height at maybe around 5”8 rather than being super tall. Also, just sayin, short / petite doesn’t mean someone is lacking in anything, and someone who is below average height doesn’t have to make up for being shorter in stature with a bunch of other stuff either.

I’m also gonna say…Thorin Oakenshield is hot!

I'm 5'9"... therefore I think 5'8" is short.

 

[Finchbearer]

I was a little disturbed when a female reviewer of my latest book described it (among other things) as catering to the sexual fantasies of young males. It was a very positive 5 star review but that comment shocked me as it certainly was not what I set out to achieve. I wonder what that therefore says about me and my underlying narrative?

Much fantasy caters to the sexual fantasies of at least males, if not specifically young males. Most romantasy is aimed at the sexual fantasies of young females. But if it wasn’t what you were aiming for then you may have hit the wrong mark. But that is one reviewer of many. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of my male protagonists speak of my own personal preferences. Everyone has a bias!