Fantasy worldbuilding frustrates me

[Jabrosky]

I got interested in writing fantasy fiction in the first place because fantasy, with its "anything goes" spirit, is the only genre out there that allows me to combine my various interests. For example, as I've said before, it's the only genre which would allow me to write about sexy African warrior chicks fighting dinosaurs in the jungle. Few genres are more favorable to the Rule of Cool which I deeply cherish.

Unfortunately, as an atheist and a metaphysical naturalist, I tend to take a highly scientific approach to world-building. I want my worlds' physics, geology, and other mechanics to resemble the real world's as much as possible, because I believe that a world with completely different mechanics would end up incomprehensibly alien to us. I could never write a disc-shaped world balanced atop giant elephants for instance. Everything in my worlds must make sense from a scientific and mechanical point of view. For that reason I usually don't like to have magical, supernatural, or any other scientifically implausible elements in my world-building.

This causes me major headaches because keeping within the limits of plausibility precludes certain creative ideas or at least makes them harder to justify. Take for instance the sexy dinosaur huntresses I described in my opening paragraph; even if humans and dinosaurs could co-evolve in the same ecosystems, in most pre-industrial cultures women have the burden of producing and nursing children from the moment they reach fecundity at ages 13-16, so most can't really afford to hunt big and dangerous game. The only way I could get around this is to give my tribal chicks implausibly modern attitudes about gender roles or distort their biology to the point where they don't resemble humans any more.

I really wish I could take more creative liberties with the world and revel in fantasy's "anything goes" spirit, but on the other hand I understand the need for consistency and a certain degree of realism so that readers don't feel completely weirded out. Am I thinking too rigidly about this?

 

[FireBird]

You are thinking much too rigidly because your worrying about it way too much. If you don't like writing about something then don't write it. I am an Atheist as well and I have no problem writing about religion. I like an incredible sense of realism in my stories as well and they include magic. Realism simply implies that everything that does happen plausibly could happen in the world you have created. Also, have you ever heard of the Amazons?

 

[FatCat]

Why do gender roles have to be "modern" for you to have sexy huntresses? It's all about adjusting culture to make your ideas seem logical, that's the fun in my opinion. Create a class system where only some women bear the burden of child birth, or have deity worship that states its the mans job to care for the children. I could see a pagan style worship of lions as one example, if i'm not mistaken its the female lions that hunt, seems plausible to me, right? Take your awesome ideas and forget about how things worked historically and twist them into how they could be seen as making perfect sense.

 

[Jess A]

You can play around with your society. Are males and females grouped into jobs, chosen when young, apprenticed into a role? For example, warriors, hunters, maybe even breeders.

Could some males and females be set aside for breeding? Or could women bear young and then the male raise them, or by women grouped into, say, wet nurse type duties? Do all women have to be huntresses? Or are they an elite group trained for that purpose, but not the majority? Could women be considered better hunters because of their apparent grace and agility, mental abilities etc, whereas men are generally seen as workers instead? Were women made in the image of the goddess and seen as individual goddesses themselves, as they 'create' life? One could go forever.

I agree with FireBird - look up matriarchal societies and Amazons.

Edit: I also agree with FatCat - lions are an interesting example; you could tweak that system.

 

[Jabrosky]

As a matter of fact, after further reflection on this topic I've decided that I could make my dinosaur huntress idea work. I would have this all-female monastic cult centered around the worship of a hunting goddess (think Sekhmet or Artemis), similar to a nunnery but with a focus on the martial arts and hunting. They would function as the society's primary defense against large and dangerous animals, though some could also sell their services abroad as anti-cavalry mercenaries. These Amazons wouldn't constitute all the society's women though, only those who could afford the monastery's fees.

 

[FatCat]

As a matter of fact, after further reflection on this topic I've decided that I could make my dinosaur huntress idea work. I would have this all-female monastic cult centered around the worship of a hunting goddess (think Sekhmet or Artemis), similar to a nunnery but with a focus on the martial arts and hunting. They would function as the society's primary defense against large and dangerous animals, though some could also sell their services abroad as anti-cavalry mercenaries. These Amazons wouldn't constitute all the society's women though, only those who could afford the monastery's fees.

Sounds right on to me, you just gotta loosen up a little and let yourself have fun

 

[ThinkerX]

Heck, just take my approach - at erratic intervals down through the millenia, aliens swoop in and latch onto samples populations of earth lifeforms and take them away to another planet, where they run tests for a while before turning the loose. Dinosaurs may be a bit ancient even for that - but presumably well within alien cloning technology.

Magic? Aliens mucking about with their human captives, awakening psionic talents, which the then released humans developed further on their own.

Once 'released into the wild', the aliens pretty much utterly ignore what the abducted lifeforms and their descendans do.

Might want to leave out the Lovecraftian things behind the scenes I have in my world, though.

 

[Feo Takahari]

On the specific subject of warrior women, I went so far as integrate magic into the evolution of humanity--that is to say, human offshoots with magical abilities, which they rely on heavily in combat, have no reason to select for physical brawn. Throw in that magic isn't sex-linked, and you get a society where men and women are about equally competent at fighting. (Of course, this made a society of bishies, but there are different directions you can go if you'd rather have brawny females.)

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I wouldn't worry too much about making your world perfectly logical and scientifically justifiable. If the story is good enough, people will forgive things that might not make perfect sense on deeper inspection. The point of the story is to entertain, not to survive deep scrutiny.

 

[Chime85]

If you're worried about aspects of your world making logical sense, I'd like to introduce to you a wonderful friend of writers (and movie makers) canne, suspension of disbelief. If your story and world is exciting enough and rich enough to captivate the reader, they will overlook something that perhaps doesn't make immediate sense.

Take Harry Potter for example. Now we all know that if you run at a wall on platform 9 at Kings Cross station,, you're going to hurt your head. However, when we read the books, we take it as red and acdept that there is indeed a platform 9 and 3/4.

It's all on your presentation. If you present your world well, the reader will accept that infact, this story is really happening, in this very setting.

 

[CupofJoe]

The point of the story is to entertain, not to survive deep scrutiny.

I forget that too often. I can tell you the layout of the kitchen cupboards of the MC's home in Chapter 1 [the good glass is in the little annex next to the larder but a long way from the boiler and the ice room] but I have no idea about how to let the readers work out that one of the characters is gay...

 

[Steerpike]

Jabrosky, I think you are expending too much time and effort on world building to the detriment of getting the story written. This is common among fantasy writers. I'll second what Benjamin says, above.

I think you have to ask yourself why you need to have all of that information sorted out. Are you planning on putting it all in the story? Because if you are, you're going to lose a great number of readers, most of whom will not want or need to know about 98% of the sort of things you mention. If you aren't going to put the information in the actual story, then you should think about whether knowing it is vital for you, as the author, to make the story better. Again, for much of it I'd say the answer is no. The question then becomes this: why are you bothering with it? If it is just because you love world building and want to do it whether it is useful to you or not, then that's fine. But you say you are frustrated by it. My recommendation is to stop with it and just write the story. Your story should not be a slave to the fantasy world you are developing. If anything, it should be the other way around.

 

[Philip Overby]

As a recovering Obsessive World Builder (OWB), I can attest that coming up with intricacies of cultures can be a bit overwhelming. I got to the point though, that people were liking some of my stories and most of them had little or no world-building. It was all done "as you go." Meaning most of the ideas I have about race, cultures, religions, etc. are just made up. I do draw rough maps just so I can keep track of cities, but I wouldn't call that major world-building. Like Steerpike said, most readers don't really care about stuff you may care about. Even if you think you must include details about certain aspects of your world, you can do it by just weaving it into the story itself.

If you're big into Robert E. Howard (like I'm guessing you are since you mentioned you like sword and sorcery), then most of his world-buiding is very lean and seems to just give glimpses into Hyborea. However, he did tons and tons of research to build his world, most of which is not shown in his writing. So world-build for yourself and do the reader a favor and keep most of it out of your story.

 

[ShortHair]

I got interested in writing fantasy fiction in the first place because fantasy, with its "anything goes" spirit, is the only genre out there that allows me to combine my various interests. For example, as I've said before, it's the only genre which would allow me to write about sexy African warrior chicks fighting dinosaurs in the jungle. Few genres are more favorable to the Rule of Cool which I deeply cherish.

... I believe that a world with completely different mechanics would end up incomprehensibly alien to us. ... Everything in my worlds must make sense from a scientific and mechanical point of view. ...

This causes me major headaches ...

I really wish I could take more creative liberties with the world ...

Asked and answered, really. Give yourself permission, just once, to throw the rules out the window. Write a story you would enjoy. Don't hamstring yourself with artificial constraints.

 

[Mindfire]

I think part of the problem is that in your compulsion to make your world scientifically probable, you are unconsciously attempting to force your rigidly atheistic worldview not only on the world, but the reader as well. Don't do that. In general, dragging the reader by a leash to the one and only conclusion you want them to come to does not go over well. Resign yourself to the fact that the reader might intuit something mystical into your world even if you don't want them to. It is impossible to have complete control over what a reader thinks as the read. Also resign yourself to the idea that alternate worlds don't have to follow the same rules as ours. Relax. Breathe. Let go. Rigidity will only close your mind to creative possibilities.

Incidentally, why are you so anti-magic? While my Christianity makes it impossible for me to stuff a purely naturalistic world. (Perhaps my imagination's only limit. You probably wouldn't like my world too much. It's quite Abrahamic as far as the supernatural goes.) However, I don't see how your atheism necessarily implies there must must be no magic in your world, or even no gods. I'd thought an atheist fantasy writer would have a field day by making their gods ineffectual, incompetent, or malevolent in order to show that the humans are better off on their own. I strongly dislike this idea, but it surprises me that you haven't considered it as a possibility.

 

[FireBird]

I'd thought an atheist fantasy writer would have a field day by making their gods ineffectual, incompetent, or malevolent in order to show that the humans are better off on their own. I strongly dislike this idea, but it surprises me that you haven't considered it as a possibility.

If anything being a non-religious person helps you when you write about religion or magic. I write all the time about religion, both about how effective and ineffective it was, is, or can be. I feel like I have an outside view of the subject since I don't immerse myself in the middle of it. I have no prejudices when it comes to writing about the topic, whether it be in condemnation or absolute praise. This, from the point of view of an atheist.

 

[Anders Ämting]

I really wish I could take more creative liberties with the world and revel in fantasy's "anything goes" spirit, but on the other hand I understand the need for consistency and a certain degree of realism so that readers don't feel completely weirded out. Am I thinking too rigidly about this?

Yes. Or rather, you are limiting yourself too much. Of course fantasy needs to make sense, but the whole point is that it only has to make sense within its own context: Fantasy doesn't owe the real world anything. That's why dragons can fly, even though in reality they would be far too big.

Heck, for my new project, I'm planning to redefine the natural laws completely, right down to what gravity and energy is, or how solar systems work.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I'd thought an atheist fantasy writer would have a field day by making their gods ineffectual, incompetent, or malevolent in order to show that the humans are better off on their own. I strongly dislike this idea, but it surprises me that you haven't considered it as a possibility.

I don't think it's at all surprising for atheist writers to write stories that contain religions that are not mocked or belittled. In THE QUEEN OF MAGES the primary civilization worships a god they call the Caretaker, and they derive a great deal of comfort and guidance from their beliefs.

This doesn't mean I'll never write a story that has a theme of humanism triumphing over religion, but it doesn't mean I'm incapable of doing otherwise.

 

[Mindfire]

Impossible to write a purely naturalistic world.*

I hate autocorrect.

 

[Jabrosky]

Jabrosky, I think you are expending too much time and effort on world building to the detriment of getting the story written. This is common among fantasy writers. I'll second what Benjamin says, above.

I think you have to ask yourself why you need to have all of that information sorted out. Are you planning on putting it all in the story? Because if you are, you're going to lose a great number of readers, most of whom will not want or need to know about 98% of the sort of things you mention. If you aren't going to put the information in the actual story, then you should think about whether knowing it is vital for you, as the author, to make the story better. Again, for much of it I'd say the answer is no. The question then becomes this: why are you bothering with it? If it is just because you love world building and want to do it whether it is useful to you or not, then that's fine. But you say you are frustrated by it. My recommendation is to stop with it and just write the story. Your story should not be a slave to the fantasy world you are developing. If anything, it should be the other way around.

While you are probably right that I spend too much time on perfecting my worldbuilding, I believe that I need to know at the very least the basics of my settings before I start writing. Setting does dictate the range of possibilities for stories or scenes; for instance, if I wanted to write about the Roman Empire, I couldn't exactly write about election fraud without taking a lot of creative liberties with Roman culture. Now to be sure, certain details can be researched on the fly during the writing process, but a little beforehand knowledge of the setting's general mechanics is necessary before plotting.

As a matter of fact, although drawing maps can be fun, the researching part of worldbuilding is not my favorite part of the process. I want to start the actual writing as soon as possible, but there is often so much I need to know about my subjects before putting pen to paper. It can overwhelm me.