Are we getting too worried about the underlying mechanics of our stories

[Sheilawisz]

To answer the original question of this thread: My answer is yes, too many Fantasy writers today are getting too worried about the underlying mechanics of how Magic works in their worlds!! Too scientifical, they want it to be too realistic, too believable- Personally I prefer the more classic take on Magic as a mysterious and mystical power =)

About worldbuilding, in my stories I focus on the story itself, the plot and the problems that my characters encounter- I give little importance to the actual worldbuilding, and about Magic it's like this:

My Mages do not cast spells, they do not throw curses, they do not need wands, they do not speak special languages... They do not use a force, they do not channel a power, they do not manipulate atoms or particles, they never pay a price or make a sacrifice of anything, they don't need vital energy, they don't have a spells book and they do not go to special schools:

They just kick reality in the (beep!) and they throw their (censored!) at whatever that they want to (not suitable for a family-friendly site!) and that's it!! XD!

It's great to have many Magic systems that work in many different ways, that's good for Fantasy literature, but magic seems to be getting too scientifical and too limited these days =(

 

[ScipioSmith]

I agree along the lines of what Steerpike indicated.

You don't need a rule book the size of a college physics text to list all of the rules and interactions possible of magic and how it works in the world, and you certainly don't need to share each rule and variable with the reader.

However, a reader should learn enough about 'how the magic works' or what to expect when magic comes into play in the context of the story--or at least an 'Oh, okay, I get it' when something different happens. All of this will happen when there is a logic, pattern, or system behind the magic. It allows for some consistency.

If characters (protagonists, antagonists and everyone in between) just start whipping magic out of their butts, randomly, apparenly varying in strenghts and range of abilities simply to fit the plot need in the story, well, the writer will at least lose me as a reader and I suspect many more.

I think it's the question of the story's tone. Having characters "kick reason to the curb and do the impossible, because that's the way Team Gurren rolls!" is fine, so long as everyone understands that this is a slightly silly story, where coolness trumps logic and the main concern is having fun. Once you start to aim for a more serious level however it is my belief that things need a little more definition.

That was the big failing of the latter Harry Potter books, IMHO, it so wanted to be a Serious Story about Serious Issues, and yet the solutions seemed to come from nowhere because we were never really shown the boundaries of what magic could do.

 

[Sheilawisz]

I like the Magic from the Harry Potter world, more mysterious and less scientifical than Magic systems from many other Fantasy worlds... the thing about Wizards not being able to magically produce food is a little strange, but it's one of my favourites =)

Have any of you read The Neverending Story by Michael Ende??

The Magic in that world is pretty surreal and impossible, it's never explained how it works and perhaps it has been an influence for Me and my style.

What is really important is not what style of Magic you choose to have in your stories: You must feel good and confident with the Magic that appears in your world, you need to like it =) Also, knowing what your characters cannot do is perhaps the most important part of writing Fantasy stories.

The thing is that now Magic must be "serious" and so Fantasy authors are getting very scientifical about their Magic and their worlds =P I'll keep writing with my reality-shattering and totally unrealistic Magic, anyway =)

 

[Dark Huntress]

The thing is that now Magic must be "serious" and so Fantasy authors are getting very scientifical about their Magic and their worlds =P I'll keep writing with my reality-shattering and totally unrealistic Magic, anyway =)

Good for you. To me magic should be unrealistic and reality-shattering. After all, it is Magic.....mystical, ethereal ..no scientific journal for me...I enjoy reading about the magic in magic.

 

[grahamguitarman]

Harry potter was meant to be 'serious'? I always took it as a teen novel with a bit of darkness thrown in.

I suspect part of the problem is that too many fantasy authors have mixed with too many Sci-Fi authors and started to feel as if they needed their magic to have a grounding in real physics. To me magic should be beyond physics, beyond reality - the minute you try to come up with a bellievable 'scientific' explanation for someone being turned to stone, you are in big trouble lol. Determine limits for your magic certainly, and perhaps determine some idea of the trigger mechanism to cast magic (is it a complex ritual, or just a thought and its so). But the why and how is unimportant, its that mystery that separates magic from science.

 

[grahamguitarman]

You are not wrong, the reason I do it is not so much for the reader. But if I design something or introduce a concept in my book I want to know how it works inside and out so I can better convey it to the reader. IMHO its the difference between

Paul casts a fireball

Paul reached into the nether regions of pure magic, routing it through his frail mortal shell. The experience was intoxicating, orgasmic, a bit of feeling immortal. Paul quickly reminded himself who was master and forced the pent up powers of the pure magic into a physical shape of a big hot fireball and sent it hurling towards the orcs.

LOL well I doubt if anyone here would be so bland as to write

Paul casts a fireball

What you are describing here is the difference between bland writing and expressive writing, which would be expressive with or without a complex set of rules. This is an excellent description of magic casting by the way, it gives a good sense of the joy of magic casting, without coming across as being a physics lesson.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Good for you. To me magic should be unrealistic and reality-shattering. After all, it is Magic.....mystical, ethereal ..no scientific journal for me...I enjoy reading about the magic in magic.

Thank you, Dark Huntress!! By the way, Welcome to Mythic Scribes- It's good to see that there are other Fantasy writers here who prefer the mystical and ethereal Magic instead of the scientific journal stuff =)

@Graham: I agree totally with you: the moment when you try to come up with a believable explanation for magical things you get in trouble!! In my stories it's like this:

Mages ride on magical crystals and they fly at 30000mph easily, flying for as long as they want without effort- So, what is the energy that allows them to fly that fast? Where does it come from? How come they do not run out of it? Well, it's Magic!! A Mage throws a dazzling beam of silvery light that causes a searing blast powerful enough to set a city on fire- What kind of energy composes this beam? Is it made of atoms, or particles? Where does it come from? Well, it's Magic!!

A Mage creates a whirl of violet sparks and a castle appears out of nowhere- Where does the mass that composes the castle came from? Did the Mage bring it from a different dimension? What laws of the universe allow this to happen? Not really, the freaking castle came out of nowhere because it's Magic =)

Magic does not need to be that powerful in every story, actually I also like very much the subtle style of Magic that Gandalf displays for example, but just imagine: Trying to add a scientific explanations system to Lord of the Rings or The Neverending Story would just ruin everything...

 

[Anders Ämting]

Harry potter was meant to be 'serious'? I always took it as a teen novel with a bit of darkness thrown in.

My personal theory is that the Harry Potter series is supposed to be seen as a metaphor for growing up.

This is probably more obvious if you watch the movies all in a row (I did that a while back) but it's true for the books as well: Notice how at the start of the story, when Harry is eleven, the whole thing is like this amazing magical adventure? Not exactly harmless but, you know, there's this naive innocence to it.

Then, for each book Harry grows one year older, and for each book the magical world loses a bit of it's innocent shimmer and the colors grow colder, and things start getting darker and more complicated and serious. It's like Harry's world is changing with him, growing more adult-like for each passing year. Harry has to deal with that and accept that even though his world isn't as bright and colorful as he throught it was, he has to accept it and find his place.

You know, like we all had to in those years between eleven and eighteen.

 

[Graham Irwin]

Follow the story a little deeper and see that it's the Hero's Journey. I'm sure we all know Joseph Campbell..

There are many permutations of that story, as it's the elemental human story and so it can be told a million ways.

Star Wars told it with spaceships. LOTR told it with orcs. Harry Potter tells it in a school.

I know it's reductive to say all journeys are the Hero's Journey, but HP fits the mold perfectly, from prophecy to destruction of "Evil". Rowling was shooting for the ages when she wrote that one

 

[sashamerideth]

Follow the story a little deeper and see that it's the Hero's Journey. I'm sure we all know Joseph Campbell..

There are many permutations of that story, as it's the elemental human story and so it can be told a million ways.

Star Wars told it with spaceships. LOTR told it with orcs. Harry Potter tells it in a school.

I know it's reductive to say all journeys are the Hero's Journey, but HP fits the mold perfectly, from prophecy to destruction of "Evil". Rowling was shooting for the ages when she wrote that one

Just about anything can be forced to fit a definition if it is twisted just right. HP also has coming of age, and probably the other story archetypes if one looks hard enough. Sort of like saying that freedom is the only theme in a story.

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[Anders Ämting]

Follow the story a little deeper and see that it's the Hero's Journey. I'm sure we all know Joseph Campbell..

Yeah, but finding Hero Journeys is easy - everyone uses the Hero's Journey, and everyone uses archetypes. It's just a part of what we do, and it's not exactly impressive.

But I'm really not sure I've ever seen anyone use the mood and style of a story in such a metaphorical way before. If Rowling did all of it deliberatelly, then I'm genuinely impressed.

 

[myrddin173]

Follow the story a little deeper and see that it's the Hero's Journey. I'm sure we all know Joseph Campbell..

There are many permutations of that story, as it's the elemental human story and so it can be told a million ways.

Star Wars told it with spaceships. LOTR told it with orcs. Harry Potter tells it in a school.

I know it's reductive to say all journeys are the Hero's Journey, but HP fits the mold perfectly, from prophecy to destruction of "Evil". Rowling was shooting for the ages when she wrote that one

I would say Harry Potter is actually more of a Bildungsroman

 

[Steerpike]

Yeah, but finding Hero Journeys is easy - everyone uses the Hero's Journey, and everyone uses archetypes.

I don't think that is true, at least with respect to the Hero's Journey. As I understand Campbell, the idea is that the Hero's Journey is common to all myths. Not all stories rise to the level of myths, and while non-myth stories may use the Hero's Journey, not all of them do so.

 

[grahamguitarman]

Harry Potter taken as a whole series is certainly a coming of age story. But whether its coming of age or heroes journey, doesn't mean it is a 'serious' story. In fact its actually quite a silly story in many ways - a boy being kept in a cupboard, I mean come on, the social services would have had the Dursleys in prison for child cruelty. And where are the serious mental issues that Harry would suffer from such serious abuse! Don't get me wrong I love HP, its one of my favorite fantasy series, and I found it highly entertaining. But its not a very 'serious' story and isn't really meant to be. Without the magic and evil enemies that make it so special, HP would just be an average High school tale about an orphan growing up in a private school.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Harry Potter is a story about Death, Life and everything that they mean, but especially it's about Death, Rowling always had Death in her mind while she was writing the series- or so is my personal opinion =)

 

[Graham Irwin]

The Hero Journey is all about confronting the great unanswerable, death. Just like Harry Potter!