Avoiding cliched elves and genre crossovers in a Fantasy Project.

[Chessie]

> a darker skin color would be from an area that had a lot of sunshine.

True for human skin. Elf skin might react differently.

Also, science hasn't been able to definitively prove that skin color and sun intensity are related. Look at the indigenous people living in northern climates. Alaska Natives, for example, have dark skin. Just throwing that out there. But I agree, elf skin would act much differently.

 

[Peat]

See, I keep seeing people talk about a fear of cliched elves, or Tolkienesque elves, and I wonder where these people are taking their portrayals of elves from because it seems to be a different place from me. Maybe I think too much of games and not enough of literature but then elves seem to be less and less a staple of fantasy fiction and absolutely ubiquitous in gaming.

But I have seen a ridiculously wide variety of elves. Virtually every hue found in human and a few more besides (blue elves be popular manny); from elves in space, sharp suits and race cars, to primitives, nomads and mindless degenerates; from nasty beyond belief to... okay, not too many nicer than humanity at the moment, but I could swear they're there; to wielding incredible magics to completely swearing off supernatural arts; from of another dimension to humans with pointy ears and an extended life span to actual plants; from Norse/Celtic flavoured to Native American/Asian and... yeah. There's some cliches sure, but people have done a huge amount with elves already and some of the cliches seem less widepsread these days. Seafaring elves should actually be a cliche.

And actual Tolkienesque Elves - immortal beings who show something semi-divine by virtue of the grace of the gods and whose magic is mainly non-obvious, being more of enhanced senses and items - that's something I don't see much of. I think most elves we see owe more to the D&D tradition of them.

I'm all up for people sticking their own stamp on things. But I think people's conceptions of elven roles in fantasy is stuck in the past and fairly limited visions of what Tolkienesque means.

And I think people are going to have to work really, really hard if they want to avoid the echoes of what's gone before. Fair play to WooHooMan - he's managed it. If the OP wants to manage it though, he'll have to do a lot of thinking.

 

[Ban]

elves in space, sharp suits and race cars,

Can you tell me what story these elves are from, because that sounds like my kind of sci-fi. If they listen to smooth jazz, live in art deco houses and talk about fighting the commies, then my dream of a 50's space opera with elves has finally become a reality.

 

[WooHooMan]

If they listen to smooth jazz, live in art deco houses and talk about fighting the commies, then my dream of a 50's space opera with elves has finally become a reality.

Smooth jazz was more of an 80's thing. They were listening to cool jazz in the 50's.
I know this is a fantasy setting we're talking about but come on, that kind of anachronism would throw readers off pretty badly.

Tropical island elves? Why not.

I did a setting based on Polynesia. While researching, I found that the Maori had an equivalent to elves called patupaiarehe or turehu. They also had Dwarves called menehune and Orc-type-guys called nawao or ponaturi.

Isn't that interesting? Tolkien's set-up for multiple races was apparently so popular that even Maori in the Middle Ages had a version of it. Those medieval Maori should have been more concerned about avoiding cliches.

 

[Ban]

Smooth jazz was more of an 80's thing. They were listening to cool jazz in the 50's.
I know this is a fantasy setting we're talking about but come on, that kind of anachronism would throw readers off pretty badly.

That cool jazz sounds pretty smooth to me.

But thanks, if I ever get around to making that 50's space opera I will remember the correct sort of jazz for my elves to groove to in their discos.


(Yeah I did that on purpose. I know I am a horrible person)

 

[WooHooMan]

But thanks, if I ever get around to making that 50's space opera I will remember the correct sort of jazz for my elves to groove to in their discos.

I want to see 70's elves now. Elves in bell bottoms with afros, getting down and discovering the greatest magic of all: funk.
That sounds fun.

 

[TheCatholicCrow]

That cool jazz sounds pretty smooth to me.

But thanks, if I ever get around to making that 50's space opera I will remember the correct sort of jazz for my elves to groove to in their discos. (Yeah I did that on purpose. I know I am a horrible person)

Nothing wrong with a bit of Disco, but Smooth Jazz sucks.

It Don't Mean a Thing if it Ain't Got that Swing (haha ... Jazz joke) Moving on. You'll be looking more at stuff like Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzgerald, Luis Armstrong, The Rat Pack, John Coltrane (if you're into Sax), Thelonius Monk, and of course, Miles Davis (If you've never heard his album "Kind of Blue" - what are you doing with your life? Open another tab right now and put it on. It's available on Spotify & probably YouTube as well.) Yeah so ... I'm guessing what you meant was something like Miles Davis' Generique.

Take it from a trumpet player ... Stay away from electronic or "smooth" jazz ... or anything with a flute. If they play it in a public restroom or elevator, it's because that's where it belongs ... kind of like hotel art doesn't belong in the Louvre. Smooth is something people tolerate but nobody really likes it. And now you know...

Let me know if you ever get around to writing that piece. I love and adore historical settings.

 

[TheCatholicCrow]

I want to see 70's elves now. Elves in bell bottoms with afros, getting down and discovering the greatest magic of all: funk.
That sounds fun.

Funny because what I was imagining was an Elf Soul Train ... getting groovy to some Donna Summers ... or maybe The Commodores. Before my time but it sounds glorious.

 

[Miskatonic]

I just ditched anything regarding elves or elf-like creatures and went with my own spin on angels and fallen angels as the "elder" race. They are not called that but you get the idea.

 

[Ban]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Disco, but Smooth Jazz sucks.

It Don't Mean a Thing if it Ain't Got that Swing (haha ... Jazz joke) Moving on. You'll be looking more at stuff like Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzgerald, Luis Armstrong, The Rat Pack, John Coltrane (if you're into Sax), Thelonius Monk, and of course, Miles Davis (If you've never heard his album "Kind of Blue" - what are you doing with your life? Open another tab right now and put it on. It's available on Spotify & probably YouTube as well.) Yeah so ... I'm guessing what you meant was something like Miles Davis' Generique.

Take it from a trumpet player ... Stay away from electronic or "smooth" jazz ... or anything with a flute. If they play it in a public restroom or elevator, it's because that's where it belongs ... kind of like hotel art doesn't belong in the Louvre. Smooth is something people tolerate but nobody really likes it. And now you know...

Let me know if you ever get around to writing that piece. I love and adore historical settings.

All those names are coming back to me
I used to be really into jazz in my early teens, but haven't returned to listen to that sort of music ever since. I don't see why I shouldn't do that sometime.

On the topic of smooth jazz. I think it is a shame that a genre of jazz prefaced with "smooth", is perhaps the least cool jazz out there. What a cruel world we live in...

And thanks for the offer CatholicCrow. I actually think I will start a topic on this very soon in the research section. People seem to be really interested in the idea and I fully agree. Most of my writing was lost a while ago so this topic might be the one to get me back to it.

 

[WooHooMan]

I just ditched anything regarding elves or elf-like creatures and went with my own spin on angels and fallen angels as the "elder" race. They are not called that but you get the idea.

Interestingly, I've been doing the same thing, more or less. I haven't called them "angels" but they're clearly meant to be angels, wings and all.
I wonder if that's going to be the next big cliche.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Interestingly, I've been doing the same thing, more or less. I haven't called them "angels" but they're clearly meant to be angels, wings and all.
I wonder if that's going to be the next big cliche.

Uh oh, I have a race with wings. :/

 

[WooHooMan]

Uh oh, I have a race with wings. :/

You better change it. You want to be original, don't you?

 

[Miskatonic]

Interestingly, I've been doing the same thing, more or less. I haven't called them "angels" but they're clearly meant to be angels, wings and all.
I wonder if that's going to be the next big cliche.

Mine aren't meant to be angels in the typical sense, they are just the first race of beings. It's also taking place in a world with multiple gods.

 

[WooHooMan]

Mine aren't meant to be angels in the typical sense, they are just the first race of beings. It's also taking place in a world with multiple gods.

Mine aren't the first race, probably (though they are super old) and there are no gods (for sure) in my setting. But still - ancient, pale, winged humanoids that have a penchant for beauty, magic and glory.
Really, it makes sense for "angels" to fill this niche than elves considering most mythological elves tended to be mischief makers or craftsmen.

 

[Peat]

Can you tell me what story these elves are from, because that sounds like my kind of sci-fi. If they listen to smooth jazz, live in art deco houses and talk about fighting the commies, then my dream of a 50's space opera with elves has finally become a reality.

Not all in the same story alas. But someone should write that. Write it yourself!

 

[Miskatonic]

Mine aren't the first race, probably (though they are super old) and there are no gods (for sure) in my setting. But still - ancient, pale, winged humanoids that have a penchant for beauty, magic and glory.
Really, it makes sense for "angels" to fill this niche than elves considering most mythological elves tended to be mischief makers or craftsmen.

Elves and Dwarfs in Norse mythology are definitely different than you average fantasy variety.

The "angels" in my story were basically created more as astral bodies that could travel through space and were sent to find a planet suitable for the gods to use to create their first world when the cosmos first manifested. Once it was established they were given a physical body to dwell in, and then "ruled" over things. At least until problems arose.

 

[ChasingSuns]

As said before, don't worry too much about avoiding cliches. I will read the most cliche story if it's a well-written story with compelling characters. That being said, if you really want to try something new, I think that the advice of changing specific aspects of elves can be really helpful. I love using real life civilizations for my fantasy races. There's an elf-like race in my current story that is heavily based on a combination of the Roman Empire and the Han Dynasty. The Maori, as mentioned before, are also amazing to draw inspiration from for many things. If you want some ideas, think about the environment that you want your elves to live in. Take that kind of environment and look up cultures that have lived in similar conditions. You can do the same for culture as well. In fact, the elves could have basically all of the same traits as Tolkien's elves, but have a very different culture all together. Hopefully some of this helps

 

[Brithel]

Also, science hasn't been able to definitively prove that skin color and sun intensity are related. Look at the indigenous people living in northern climates. Alaska Natives, for example, have dark skin. Just throwing that out there. But I agree, elf skin would act much differently.

Wouldn't that be explained by the large quantities of snow and ice that would reflect the light? People going to Antartica have to where sunglasses due to the bright glare of the ice.
Also at extreme lattitudes for half the year there the days are extremely long, sometimes so that the sun never sets for weeks/months (and of course the same occurs with night the other half of the year).
Of course I'm no scientist so I can't say if any of that has an effect, nor do I know if many people live that far north (as Alaska is quite a large place and I imagine most people live concentrated in the southern most regions) for it matter anyway.

 

[Jess]

No one has written from your mind and heart. That's something that has always stuck with me. What do your elves look like? I agree with what WooHooMan said about your thinking being a little backwards. It's pretty much impossible to avoid cliches entirely. I think I get what you mean though, you don't want your work compared to Tolkien. I often panic that my ideas are going to be taken as original because the fantasy genre has been done and done again. But you've got your own voice. So go ahead and write about your Elven Princess and see where her story takes you. In the end you can always give it to someone you trust to read over it and see if it reminds them too closesly of work that has already been done but I suspect that it will be beautifully original like you.