Character Names -- When and How

[BWFoster78]

Spoken like a writer, not just a reader, IMO. I think Creed's above example is perfect. A further narrative distance introducing you to the character and situation may only need to last a sentence or two but it can be creatively beneficial. Then, shorteneing the ND puts you into the character's head and you know more about him, and might even feel more comfortable. I say 'you' in a general sense because I don't think that you, BWFoster, will ever agree with this, and that's okay. I see your point too, I just feel a bit differently.

Every engineering professor I had advised me that, when doing problems, pay special attention to the units of measurement used. The theory being that, if you take care of the units, the units will take care of you.

I think it's much the same in writing. If you take care of the details, your overall product is going to be better.

In this case, subverting POV to achieve a temporary perceived benefit feels wrongheaded.

To each his own, though.

 

[Trick]

Every engineering professor I had advised me that, when doing problems, pay special attention to the units of measurement used. The theory being that, if you take care of the units, the units will take care of you.

I think it's much the same in writing. If you take care of the details, your overall product is going to be better.

In this case, subverting POV to achieve a temporary perceived benefit feels wrongheaded.

To each his own, though.

I'm a mechanical designer finishing a bachelors in ME and, when it comes to engineering, I agree wholeheartedly. But, if creative writing were as static a concept as math I wouldn't write another word. I might just fall asleep and never wake up again, to be honest.

 

[BWFoster78]

I was also commenting on the invalidness of the comparison. Of course you were just using CagedMaiden's example, but for a proper analysis of our subject the two were apples and oranges.

How so? I took the first line as presented for method 1 and compared it to the first line presented for method 2. How is that apples and oranges?

I used that example to specifically address the importance of starting your opening line with character.

It seems to me that you then took my argument and twisted it to imply that I drew an improper comparison.

I think this name idea is one of many different ways to get that emotion.

As stated in my last post, I think it's a bad idea, but to each his own...

As to your final point, I've stated many times that an author can do anything he wants as long as it works. If you have the talent and skill to pull something like that off, good on you.

On the other hand, I think that not many authors on this board are at the level where they can do so. Personally, I'm just trying to master the relatively simple concept of getting deep inside my character's head. From what I've seen of the state of self published writing, it would do most of us well to concentrate more on the basics.

 

[BWFoster78]

I'm a mechanical designer finishing a bachelors in ME and, when it comes to engineering, I agree wholeheartedly. But, if creative writing were as static a concept as math I wouldn't write another word. I might just fall asleep and never wake up again, to be honest.

I'm a mechanical PE. Creative writing has way too many variables and is far too subjective to be as static as math. However, there are some parallels that I think are valid.

For example, there exist certain techniques that achieve a certain impact. Tension is a great illustration. Throw a character with a goal into a situation and present opposition to that goal. Each and every time you do this, you'll get a tense scene. Want more tension? Increase either the desire for the goal, the strength of the opposition, or both.

The creative part is determining:

what situation
what goal
what opposition
what character
how much tension is desired.

 

[Trick]

I agree with that. I like knowing there are more guys out there in my field who also love and write fantasy etc. My Coworkers don't understand how my brain does both. I don't understand how it could only do one or the other.

I really do appreciate all the back and forth on this. I don't think my mind is necessarily changed but the idea is honed and I will know better when it should be avoided completely.

 

[Creed]

I used that example to specifically address the importance of starting your opening line with character.

And you proved it. Well done! Except that isn't the matter at hand.

It seems to me that you then took my argument and twisted it to imply that I drew an improper comparison.

I brought us back to that matter at hand, and used the new examples to illustrate the benefit of keeping a name for a sentence or a paragraph. I demonstrated the ability to create a greater level of mystery and intrigue than with an immediate name.

As stated in my last post, I think it's a bad idea, but to each his own...

Your opinion is noted, and respected, and- being an opinion- cannot be wrong. Efficacy, however, does not follow the opinions of the writer, but of the reader. If it's effective, then it works, and if it works, then it's a wise inclusion.

On the other hand, I think that not many authors on this board are at the level where they can do so.

The orthodoxy is safe, and that's all well and good. We need to use the conventional writing techniques and your rules and such to create an effective piece of writing. However we should not share a single voice, and it's the rule-breakers, the genre-busters, and the imaginative (not necessarily a prerequisite for fantasy, I'm afraid) that create important pieces of work. After a certain amount of practise and skill is reached, one shouldn't be so confined by the expectations of others, wouldn't you agree?

 

[BWFoster78]

And you proved it. Well done!

Thank you!

Except that isn't the matter at hand.

It's an important manner that was raised in response to the thread. We denizens of MS are not opposed to chasing the occasional rabbit.

I brought us back to that matter at hand,

Which I in no way object to.

I objected to a perceived implication which you then appeared to confirm. I simply request that you not imply that I made an invalid comparison when I did no such thing.

Had you simply said, "Granted, but let's get back to the OP's question" I'd have had no issue whatsoever.

After a certain amount of practise and skill is reached, one shouldn't be so confined by the expectations of others, wouldn't you agree?

All I know is that I'm reading an awful lot of complete crap at the moment. If you have indeed passed the abilities of the rest of us, feel free to experiment to your heart's content. I think that most of us have yet to reach that amount of practice and skill that justifies it.

 

[Trick]

All I know is that I'm reading an awful lot of complete crap at the moment. If you have indeed passed the abilities of the rest of us, feel free to experiment to your heart's content. I think that most of us have yet to reach that amount of practice and skill that justifies it.

Where are you finding this complete crap? And why do you continue reading it?

 

[BWFoster78]

Where are you finding this complete crap? And why do you continue reading it?

All over the place and because I'm trying to help others.

 

[Trick]

Ah. I see. Well, I suppose I misunderstood how you meant "complete crap." To me that implies it's beyond saving. I suppose you meant something akin to "currently crap."

 

[Creed]

All I know is that I'm reading an awful lot of complete crap at the moment. If you have indeed passed the abilities of the rest of us, feel free to experiment to your heart's content. I think that most of us have yet to reach that amount of practice and skill that justifies it.

Oh no, I certainly agree that practise and experience is something I require, and that Chuck Palahniuk made a gamble- admittedly one that paid off and established him as a capable writer. As I said, we do require those writing conventions, and we shouldn't break them willy nilly, me included. It's just required, if we are to make any progress, that there be experimentation. I'll stick with the rare bending of convention, myself, and until I'm ready (whenever that may be) I'll stick with it.

To me that implies it's beyond saving. I suppose you meant something akin to "currently crap."

I like to keep the positive attitude that nothing is beyond saving.

 

[BWFoster78]

Ah. I see. Well, I suppose I misunderstood how you meant "complete crap." To me that implies it's beyond saving. I suppose you meant something akin to "currently crap."

I tend to think of all my first drafts as complete crap.

Hopefully, by the time I finish with editing, it transcends its humble beginnings.

 

[Trick]

I like to keep the positive attitude that nothing is beyond saving.

I feel the same, even if it's only the idea that's worth saving, and not the MS.

I tend to think of all my first drafts as complete crap.

Hopefully, by the time I finish with editing, it transcends its humble beginnings.

I won't argue with the method. You're a braver man than I. I tend to think of my first drafts as written by a kid who needs plenty of help. Keeps me smiling while I edit

 

[PaulineMRoss]

All I know is that I'm reading an awful lot of complete crap at the moment.

Brian, life's too short to read crap, even if you're helping people out. I've learned to be absolutely ruthless about what I read, and I've found some really good stuff lately.

If you want to put a smile on your face without committing to a 1000 page doorstopper, try one of the 'Wandering Tale' novellas by Tristan Gregory (Telcontar here). The first and fourth are near-as-dammit perfect.

To get back on topic, I'm going to cast my vote for 'the assassin' over Cecil. An assassin, no matter what he's doing, is much more intriguing than Cecil. Actually, almost anything is more intriguing than Cecil... Not really a great fantasy name.

 

[BWFoster78]

Actually, almost anything is more intriguing than Cecil... Not really a great fantasy name.

Great. Now I'm being challenged to write a fantastic fantasy story with a protagonist named Cecil...

 

[Trick]

Great. Now I'm being challenged to write a fantastic fantasy story with a protagonist named Cecil...

Come on, do it!


EDIT: Sweet I'm a master! - what a silly post for gaining rank, hehe

 

[Asura Levi]

(...) I tend to think of my first drafts as written by a kid who needs plenty of help. Keeps me smiling while I edit

Honestly, I want to kill that child when I see his draft (my drafts). But sometimes that is gold underneath all that crap.

Great. Now I'm being challenged to write a fantastic fantasy story with a protagonist named Cecil...

You make me laugh. And I agree, Cecil isn't that I good heroic name (FF IV is still one of my favorites).

After all this talks I came to understand more a bit of importance of when you should name a character and as I pointed out Creed, looking back this way, I agree in naming the character not long after his introduction but I have to confess, plenty of times I delay naming for too long.
Maybe because I want to tell the story before (start it before the idea run away) I have given the character a name.

Anyway, thank ou all.

 

[PaulineMRoss]

Great. Now I'm being challenged to write a fantastic fantasy story with a protagonist named Cecil...

Nope. Can't be done. Protagonists have to be called Xil'hrandthro or Zechzzza or some such, everybody knows that.

 

[BWFoster78]

Nope. Can't be done. Protagonists have to be called Xil'hrandthro or Zechzzza or some such, everybody knows that.

Do you mind if I use those ? That second one would make a great sorcerer and I hate coming up with names.

 

[BWFoster78]

Come on, do it!

I've actually started a scene. I've got the character down and the start of a situation. If it's going to be a short story for Steerpike's anthology, though, I need an Idea. That's always the hardest part for me...