Concerning Likable Characters

[Steerpike]

I like Abercrombie's characters a lot. GRRM's are hit or miss with me. Arya is my favorite from GoT. I like Tyrion as a character, though he's not a great person on the whole. Jaime has a nice arc, even though I couldn't stand him initially.

As for Abercrombie...well, Logen Ninefingers, Black Dow, Monza Murcatto, Ferro Maljinn, Caul Shivers, Nicomo Cosca &c. What's not to like?

 

[Penpilot]

Warning Game of Thrones spoilers below.

In ASOIF I find that most POV characters have one noble trait, and the characters that are supposedly the most good have a big flaw. I think the the noble traits make the character sympathetic. And the flaws make the characters more relatable.

Cersei loves her children.
Jamie loves truely, even though it's his sister.
Tyrion longs for his true love
The Hound has sympathy for Sansa's pain

Rob and Ned are too honorable and naive. They believe just because they are in the right, they will win.
Arya doesn't know when to shut her mouth
Sansa is spoiled
Cat is vengeful
Jon thinks he's better than everyone, that rules don't apply to him.


Daenerys can't accept that it's impossible to be fair to everyone.
Brienne holds to honor too tightly


The Starks in general fail because they don't know how to play the game. They grew up far north and isolated from Kingslanding in an environment where their honorable father dictated the rules of their world.

If you look at the Lannisters, they're not evil, well... except Joffery. Its just that they know what they must do in order to survive in the Game of Thrones. They grew up where knowing how to play mattered, and that's why they survived.

 

[Gryphos]

I find it incredibly interesting that you put these three types of bad characters together. Is this sarcasm? It's so hard to tell when there's only text to go off of.

That's the socialist in me talking. Tax avoidance is an extremely immoral thing to do in my eyes, and I would struggle to follow a protagonist who went out of their way to avoid giving any wealth back to the world they took it from.

 

[Penpilot]

That's the socialist in me talking. Tax avoidance is an extremely immoral thing to do in my eyes, and I would struggle to follow a protagonist who went out of their way to avoid giving any wealth back to the world they took it from.

While income tax is just a person chipping in their fair share, which they should, some other taxes just feel wrong, like the government sticking their hands so deep into your pockets their fingers come out brown and you need a shower afterwards.

When my Mom passed away I had to pay an inheritance tax, basically tax on the money my Mom paid taxes on already. While it wasn't an earth shattering amount, it was enough to make me wish my Mom spent it all on a nice vacation for herself instead trying to leave something for me and having the government take a big chunk of her hard earned dollars away.

 

[Gryphos]

While income tax is just a person chipping in their fair share, which they should, some other taxes just feel wrong, like the government sticking their hands so deep into your pockets their fingers come out brown and you need a shower afterwards.

When my Mom passed away I had to pay an inheritance tax, basically tax on the money my Mom paid taxes on already. While it wasn't an earth shattering amount, it was enough to make me wish my Mom spent it all on a nice vacation for herself instead trying to leave something for me and having the government take a big chunk of her hard earned dollars away.

This is where you just end up at ideological differences. To me, it's perfectly logical that when a person dies a portion of their wealth should go to the State. I mean, the dead person's not exactly gonna be using it, and inheritance is basically just another kind of income, so why shouldn't it be taxed?

But anyways, this is rather off topic.

 

[Trick]

But anyways, this is rather off topic.

Agreed. Thanks for answering though. I can't say I agree but you probably assumed that from the question.

 

[ascanius]

I think Mythicscribes has reached a new low talking about the validity of taxes and all......

Warning Game of Thrones spoilers below.

In ASOIF I find that most POV characters have one noble trait, and the characters that are supposedly the most good have a big flaw. I think the the noble traits make the character sympathetic. And the flaws make the characters more relatable.

Cersei loves her children.
Jamie loves truely, even though it's his sister.
Tyrion longs for his true love
The Hound has sympathy for Sansa's pain

Rob and Ned are too honorable and naive. They believe just because they are in the right, they will win.
Arya doesn't know when to shut her mouth
Sansa is spoiled
Cat is vengeful
Jon thinks he's better than everyone, that rules don't apply to him.


Daenerys can't accept that it's impossible to be fair to everyone.
Brienne holds to honor too tightly


The Starks in general fail because they don't know how to play the game. They grew up far north and isolated from Kingslanding in an environment where their honorable father dictated the rules of their world.

If you look at the Lannisters, they're not evil, well... except Joffery. Its just that they know what they must do in order to survive in the Game of Thrones. They grew up where knowing how to play mattered, and that's why they survived.

I get what your saying but I I've always seen it as the characters all have a belief and in some situations that belief is a flaw and in other it is a virtue.

For instance Cersei loves her children and will do whatever it takes to keep them safe it's a good trait for anyone, however it is also a flaw because she knows what Joffery is and said herself she is afraid of him but that belief, that love for her children puts them all at risk.
Ned and Rob stark they both hold to their honor except when with those they love, and it gets them both killed.

Just my thought.

 

[Feo Takahari]

Gryphos and Penpilot might actually be on-topic. I'm watching Izombie right now and really liking the main character, but my mother refuses to watch it because the zombies eat brains. She really has a thing about due to the dead, so violating a dead body automatically makes a character unsympathetic to her, regardless of any other context.

I guess all I'm saying is that you won't always be able to prevent people from disliking your characters, unless you want your zombies to eat whole wheat. (Graiiins . . .)

 

[Penpilot]

I get what your saying but I I've always seen it as the characters all have a belief and in some situations that belief is a flaw and in other it is a virtue.

I think this speaks to the complexity of the characters in ASOIF and the world when people can see different things when looking at something from different angles. For me, the characters may not always be likeable 100% of the time, but they're always engaging and interesting to read.

I guess all I'm saying is that you won't always be able to prevent people from disliking your characters, unless you want your zombies to eat whole wheat. (Graiiins . . .)

Hahha... this reminded me of the South Park episode Night of the Living Homeless.

[video]https://youtu.be/FlBtlDj-ARE?t=14[/video]

 

[Alora pendrak]

I don't get the relate to characters thing, half the characters I like such as Jamie from game of thrones I can't relate too, yet i'm invested in their stuggles because their interesting and have a point of view far different from my own and are human. I often like the characters male and female that half the fanbase hates while I find a lot of the popular characters to be dull, boring with a few exceptions but as an author its an easy trap to fall into.

My editor and beta reader really hate my male lead who I tried so hard to make relateible and likeable I was still in high school at the time. My beta reader thinks he's a spineless whiny whimp who needs to grow a backbone!

While my editor finds him far too typical of a young adult male protagonist and finds his pov chapters unbearable. They like my flawed characters particulary my female ones which is nice.
As was mentioned above gender does play a big part in this issue. I noticed Guy readers tend to be harder on the male characters while female readers are harder on the female characters overall. i'm biased aginst likeable characters because I've seen people get so wrapped up in them that they don't realize that the character who insulted their fav had a good point to me that's a very limited perception character likeability encourages. When it comes down to it through its up to the author.