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DRM hurting publishers?

Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
I agree with many of the above that DRM only really hurts users. No digital pirate worth his salt is stopped for more than a handful of hours by any existing DRM method, and that is likely to remain true. I'm a computer programmer, and I currently have the knowledge and skills I would need to crack the DRM on most software available today. I've never studied it, and I'm not interested in furthering piracy of any kind - it's just that the knowledge is neither specialized nor particularly arcane.

We also need to narrow our definition of piracy a tad, I think. People copying an ebook to give to their friends may be illegal, and is technically piracy, but it's not the kind we need to be worried about. We need to worry about the true digital pirates, the ones who are in it for profit. These people not only pirate works of all kinds, they make them available for sale to others at a cost that usually undercuts the market price. This sort of thing is rampant in south Asian countries especially.

These 'true' pirates are not stopped by DRM. It's a matter of a few hours for an experienced cracker to confound even the most advanced rights system. DRM even agruably helps them, as it makes property harder to use for the honest consumer, and pirates offer versions free from those troublesome systems.

On a tangent from my point here, Micheal brought up a good point about digital book lending in that it should mimic physical book lending - any purchased instance of a book is only available to one person at a time.
 

Leif GS Notae

Closed Account
Don't be surprised if the ebook DRM starts mimicking the video game DRM. The demand of being online or having a signal to connect to as a requirement to use the goods is starting to grow. The other one that may not be adaptable except for when tablets and readers expand is the redemption code. Sure, you can have this simple book, but with the $5 code from the publishers, you can have access to interactive maps, special chapters, author's notes, etc.

Is DRM hurting the industry? The way it is handled now, yes. Exclusivity is a hindrance itself because you must have one reader or another. The comics industry is throwing their hats in with this by choosing the Kindle vs. the Nook.

Building in limits to ereaders/tablets is dumb too (looking at you, B&N), but they must do what they can do protect their products. Everyone will pine for those non-updated ereaders soon heh
 

Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
The demand of being online or having a signal to connect to as a requirement to use the goods is starting to grow.

Possible I suppose. However, given that there are many places where signal is weak (and the mobility of the readers themselves is part of their entire reason for existing) I don't find it entirely likely. I would expect an uproar from the consumers if any of the eReaders ceased to function when you went out of signal range.

Building in limits to ereaders/tablets is dumb too (looking at you, B&N), but they must do what they can do protect their products. Everyone will pine for those non-updated ereaders soon heh

What limits are you talking about? Still an eReader newbie myself and I've only skimmed the first page of this thread, so I apologize if it's been mentioned already.
 
I doubt we'll see an internet connection required for ebook readers anytime soon. As someone noted above, much of the benefit comes from being able to download a book which you then read on a plane, or at the beach, or in the car, or whatever. And most ereaders sold today still just have wifi, not 3G internet.

So no, not anytime soon, anyway.

On the contrary, I suspect within the next few years we'll see DRM go away in book publishing the same way it's been removed from most music sales.
 
We do deserve to be compensated, but DRM will never stop piracy; it's barely even a speed bump. All it does is make it harder for legit users (who already paid you) from sharing with their friends, an act which is more likely to result in additional sales than it is to result in lost sales.
He gets it.

I already said that I'm against DRM. I "get it". I was just speaking on a different subject which is multiple lending.
 
I doubt we'll see an internet connection required for ebook readers anytime soon. As someone noted above, much of the benefit comes from being able to download a book which you then read on a plane, or at the beach, or in the car, or whatever. And most ereaders sold today still just have wifi, not 3G internet.

One of the big selling points of the e-ink Kindles (not the Fire) was that the battery life is absurdly long (which it is; I routinely would go a week without charging my Kindle, even when I was reading it for hours every day). Having to have constant or frequent wireless contact would kill that; radio is a huge power drain.

I mean, they could always change their minds in the future when every device is expected to be connected to everything all the time...

...but still, they'll figure out (like the music industry did) that DRM is pointless and costs them more money to implement than they'll ever hope to save by using it.
 

Leif GS Notae

Closed Account
Possible I suppose. However, given that there are many places where signal is weak (and the mobility of the readers themselves is part of their entire reason for existing) I don't find it entirely likely. I would expect an uproar from the consumers if any of the eReaders ceased to function when you went out of signal range.

This is why everything is shifting over to tablet and away from ereaders. It is easier to "require" a connection if you have a connection already established. The video game industry is testing it out and it seems to be doing well, going through third party distributors who require your constant access (Steam and EA's Origin) to access their material. While it might seem absurd, do not forget that...

What limits are you talking about? Still an eReader newbie myself and I've only skimmed the first page of this thread, so I apologize if it's been mentioned already.

...The new Nook allows for only 1GB of non-Nook material. You can only have 1 GB of PDF's, documents or anything else (though I am sure there will be work arounds for it soon) and the rest HAS to be Nook material. This is where it starts getting slippery. To prevent piracy, they are limiting their hardware. That is their right, but I for one wouldn't take it. I have the Nook Color ereader and use it to house my extensive roleplaying book library via PDF.

Everyone is waiting to see an industry get it "right" so the rest can follow it. Right now, it seems as though the video game industry is forging that path. Look for some sort of implementation of their DRM on electronic goods like ebooks, especially after the large growth they have experienced this year.
 

Shadoe

Sage
.The new Nook allows for only 1GB of non-Nook material. You can only have 1 GB of PDF's, documents or anything else (though I am sure there will be work arounds for it soon) and the rest HAS to be Nook material. This is where it starts getting slippery. To prevent piracy, they are limiting their hardware. That is their right, but I for one wouldn't take it. I have the Nook Color ereader and use it to house my extensive roleplaying book library via PDF.

That's crazy. They tell their customers what they're allowed to read? Another reason I'm glad I went with the kindle.
 
Of course, the BIGGEST advantage of the Nook Color and Nook Tablet is how darned easy the little things are to root. ;) Then you have the cheapest fully functional high-quality Android tablet on the market, completely capable of bluetooth (at least for the color, not sure about the tablet) and able to read from whichever ebook retailer you prefer. ;)

Amazon has been fighting back via updates to rooted Fires to attempt to de-root them, so it looks like the Fire might not be such a great target for this sort of activity.
 

Leif GS Notae

Closed Account
That's crazy. They tell their customers what they're allowed to read? Another reason I'm glad I went with the kindle.

Welcome to the world of tomorrow... heh.

Honestly, it shouldn't deter you from an ereader, but they will be going away soon. Everything will be "cloud" driven, tablets and whatever else they come up with. All I know is, I will wait to see how it plays out. One will falter, but which one will it be? DRM or ebooks?
 
Welcome to the world of tomorrow... heh.

Honestly, it shouldn't deter you from an ereader, but they will be going away soon. Everything will be "cloud" driven, tablets and whatever else they come up with. All I know is, I will wait to see how it plays out. One will falter, but which one will it be? DRM or ebooks?
Ebooks on a cloud are still ebooks, just like MP3 music is still digital music regardless whether it's downloaded or stored in a cloud.

People will (already do!) store ebooks on "cloud" servers, just like music. But they'll still download the material to readers/players to carry with them. Until we have free 3G available everywhere, even on airplanes and remote areas, people are still going to want to carry their materials with them, even if they load them from a cloud server first, and store them in the cloud when not in use.
 

Leif GS Notae

Closed Account
Ebooks on a cloud are still ebooks, just like MP3 music is still digital music regardless whether it's downloaded or stored in a cloud.

People will (already do!) store ebooks on "cloud" servers, just like music. But they'll still download the material to readers/players to carry with them. Until we have free 3G available everywhere, even on airplanes and remote areas, people are still going to want to carry their materials with them, even if they load them from a cloud server first, and store them in the cloud when not in use.

Not all people have it set up, nor do they have access to it. The "cloud" might be here for some, but not all. Yes, if you have an ereader you can access it, but some don't even go that far. People will always be resistant to tech, just like they are resistant to change.

But this doesn't apply to the discussion about DRM, that should be for another day on another thread
 
Personally, I dislike DRM, I think when it comes to ePublishing it is just a minor speed bump. Heck, if a kind of DRM can be circumvented or broken, that process can be automated. Might take a little more time to write, but computers are good at doing the same thing over and over again, very quickly. Exploit that, and DRM is broken, until a new method is adopted.
 
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