Grammar question: the most basic of complete sentences.

[Feo Takahari]

TL;DR version: is "Some lingered" a complete sentence?

The Swedish My Little Pony writer is back! This time, the subject of the question is this sentence:

Most of them flew away while some lingered, apparently listening to the stranger give some speech.

My gut tells me that there should be a comma after "away." Looking at this list of comma rules, my guess would be that 3b applies--it's a connection between two independent clauses. But I'm not 100% certain that "while some lingered" is an independent clause. It seems like the defining point would be whether "Some lingered" is a complete sentence, but looking at this guide to complete sentences doesn't clear up the issue for me. What do you think?

 

[Nimue]

"Some lingered" is absolutely a complete sentence. I think you've got it punctuated correctly.

 

[Penpilot]

I don't think 3b applies because while isn't one of the FANBOYS coordinating conjunctions.
Conjunctions

"Some lingered" is a complete sentence. It's the same as "Bob jumped."

Here's a link that addresses your particular problem.
Grammar Tip of the Day: "While" -- a comma makes it mean "whereas"

In this case I think you need a comma, but there are times when using the conjunction "while" where you don't use a comma.

Edit Addition: I think this is the case application of #15 from this link. https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/

15. Don't put a comma after the main clause when a dependent (subordinate) clause follows it (except for cases of extreme contrast).

INCORRECT: The cat scratched at the door, while I was eating.
CORRECT: She was still quite upset, although she had won the Oscar. (This comma use is correct because it is an example of extreme contrast)

In your particular case it's a contrast so again a comma is needed. No comma is needed when things are happening at the same time.

 

[Trick]

Honestly, I think this is an either-or situation. I believe both options are grammatically acceptable. However, without the comma, it reads with more expedience and that is the more desirable of the two options. I could assuredly be wrong but, as a grammar conscious reader, I would read the sentence as is with no qualms.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I don't have an opinion. I just wanted to say thanks for the link to the list of comma rules. I've been wondering about something on it but haven't gotten around to investigating it properly. Now I have - and I've got a bunch of corrections to make (I've combined rules 1 and 2 and added Oxford commas after the 2nd adjective).

 

[Mythopoet]

Honestly, I think this is an either-or situation. I believe both options are grammatically acceptable. However, without the comma, it reads with more expedience and that is the more desirable of the two options. I could assuredly be wrong but, as a grammar conscious reader, I would read the sentence as is with no qualms.

I agree with this.

 

[goldhawk]

In the sentence, "while" could be replaced with "but" and the meaning isn't changed:

Most of them flew away but some lingered, apparently listening to the stranger give some speech.

Would you put a comma between "away" and "but"? Something to think about.

 

[wordwalker]

My opinion: if you have to debate it, you don't even try to write it that way. What's more important, keeping all your readers clear and without distracting them, or knowing your writing includes the proper use of a grammar puzzle?

 

[Caged Maiden]

I want to weigh in on commas. I overuse them. All the time. Editing usually solves this a touch for me and I catch most of them in final revisions.

Okay, so with complete or incomplete sentences, there is another thing to consider--pacing.

While there are proper rules to writing, I think that gets a touch thrown out the window when writing stories. If your goal is to simply convey ideas, proper grammar and punctuation is the best way to convey the right thing: "I hit him with a stout left and right, and a knee in his gut for good measure." It's a statement and good at conveying what happened. It also denotes a certain abruptness to the concept of the exchange.

But a look at incomplete sentences as pacing tools is I think where some writers need to abandon the rules sometimes. Short sentences convey more sometimes: urgency, tension, distraction, etc. in a way full thoughts sometimes fail. "Clutching his midsection, he fell. Good enough. He groaned and I, for a moment, considered his punishment dealt. But then I remembered my sister's face when she told me the tale of her pain--how he called her a tramp and spit in her face. I wasn't finished with just yet."

Incomplete sentences convey inner thoughts, often leading to a deeper POV and/ or the general tone of the character. I use them sometimes to create effect and though they aren't something to abuse, I thin they're absolutely one of the key elements to pacing that shouldn't be ignored just because they aren't technically correct.

Okay, that's my thought on incomplete sentences, fragments, and longer, meandering sentences. They all have their place in fiction writing and the more you can vary your structure, the more colorful and real your story sounds.

 

[Feo Takahari]

My opinion: if you have to debate it, you don't even try to write it that way. What's more important, keeping all your readers clear and without distracting them, or knowing your writing includes the proper use of a grammar puzzle?

This statement interests me, because it implies that having a comma is more distracting than not having a comma. Beyond any correct or incorrect principle of grammar, sentences with commas between separate thoughts or ideas are easier for me to parse. I can't say I often find a comma distracting, unless it somehow got put in the middle of a thought.

(Actually, take that last sentence. Grammatically speaking, there probably shouldn't be a comma there, but I used one because the sentence felt confusing without it.)

Am I just being weird again?

 

[Penpilot]

With "while" there will be a change in meaning when the comma isn't there.

For example, take this sentence, with and without the comma.

Bob ran while Frank walked.
Bob ran, while Frank walked.

The first sentence means Bob is running and at the same time Frank is walking.

The second sentence means Frank walked instead of running. Bob and Frank do not have to be doing their actions at the same time. It's like Bob asked Frank if he wanted to go for a run and Frank said, "No thanks. I'll go for a walk later."