How comfortable are you writing ahem, 'romance' ?

[Naruzeldamaster]

Romance (the actual 'business' part of it I mean) is something I don't mind watching in movies and other media. But sometimes, especially in spy films, it's one of those things that personally I roll my eyes at. I understand why it's there, narratively, but especially in a serious movie like say james bond, where the plot is about potential national threats. I tend to roll my eyes and I'm like 'really, we're doing this NOW? I mean ok, I approve, but why tho' lol Sometimes I'm like 'finally these two characters who were obviously having the hots for eachother are getting down' too. So it kinda goes both ways depending on the tone of the story. The only thing I'm iffy about these scenes with is video games, and that's almost explicitly because of how my parents tend to judge content when they have like 1% of the context and -100% of understanding of video games in general.

In terms of my own writing, I feel like I COULD write this kind of content (and I'm brave enough for some uh, R34 stuff, if and ONLY if the characters are the type to like that stuff, like I wouldn't make a shapeshifter do some uh, 'silly' shapeshifter type things, if both parties weren't into it. Heck, there's a joke between the leads of my current project where the female lead tries to sus out what her human partner is 'into' and when he's clueless about all her 'checks' she explodes with 'ugh, why did I pick the only human without a fetish!' lol He responds with 'what's a fetish? sounds like an italian dish' of course, that's just him finally figuring out what she's hinting at, and teasing her) but most of the time? I don't feel it's really needed, question mark? I'm a big characters guy and I love characters interacting, but this is one interaction that sometimes, I feel is really unneeded to advance the plot. I will admit that I'm pretty bad at it and the closest I've gotten to an actual 'scene' is when I was in high school, and I'm pretty sure I 'chickened out' lol I'm sure if I tried writing a proper sex scene now I could do it, but I dunno, I just feel like it doesn't 'belong' in my personal writing, if that makes sense?

 

[Finchbearer]

Romance as a genre has been marred in recent years by being a veil for erotica, simply because it sells better than a book marketed as ‘erotica’.

Romance traditionally speaking in literature is Jane Austen - no explicit content necessary, plenty of romance.

Erotica - porn in writing form, with varying degrees of narrative.

Anyway, If you don’t feel comfortable writing sex scenes then there is no obligation to. You can hint at a sex scene without using detailed language too. Sometimes that is more powerful.

On James Bond - Fleming wrote an aspirational male character at the time, I think. Not just a cunning super intelligent spy, but a sharp dressed ladies man… I don’t think that has aged well.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Romance as a genre has been marred in recent years by being a veil for erotica, simply because it sells better than a book marketed as ‘erotica’.

Romance traditionally speaking in literature is Jane Austen - no explicit content necessary, plenty of romance.

Erotica - porn in writing form, with varying degrees of narrative.

Anyway, If you don’t feel comfortable writing sex scenes then there is no obligation to. You can hint at a sex scene without using detailed language too. Sometimes that is more powerful.

On James Bond - Fleming wrote an aspirational male character at the time, I think. Not just a cunning super intelligent spy, but a sharp dressed ladies man… I don’t think that has aged well.

The spy movie genre in general tends to have this as a 'feature' sometimes, and I'm pretty sure it's cause of James Bond's success with it. The archetype, especially Flemmings portrayal of it, absolutely has aged. I think how well it has aged depends on what you initially liked about james bond to begin with (even growing up I never liked the romance scenes, it was just something I 'sat through' to get to the actual fun parts of the movies the only one I really found fit the tone of the rest of the film was the one in gold member I think? Where he's wrestling in the barn) One could easily and confidently write a 'james bond' without the parts that have aged like milk, and probably do very well I think. (depending on how it's written.) Even now I think James Bond is a product of it's time, not a bad thing but not a good thing either.

I don't know how much 'erotica' I would put in my stories, even if both parties were interested in it. I would probably prefer to give the reader JUST enough information about the lead characters, and their will to try anything, to let their imagination do the work for me. Like that scene I mentioned in my current project, The female lead likes messing with humans (she's a kitsune) and she's capable of some silly things, but she never had a 'mate' before so she is trying to sus out how to make HIM happy during the 'business' end. They eventually come to a silent understanding of eachother and start teasing the other about those things. It goes from 'not so wholesome' to 'wait, these two lovebirds made it wholesome, how??' lol But as far as the actual 'act' goes, it's never on camera or brought up in the narrative. I'm pretty sure that at some point they'll joke about what's not on camera is the most interesting part of the film.

 

[Fyri]

I think you have to keep in mind your audience and why you want to write the story.

I am scouring the world for good YA fantasy stories that don't have romance as a major subplot. I'm asexual so I'm tired of it being everywhere. However, I wrote my WIP in high school before I knew that people didn't have to fall in love to make a good story. So, I wrote a romance into my series and, having zero experience with it, had to figure out how to write a "first kiss" scene. XD I did it because I was trying to "be a writer" of a "book" and was led to believe "Oh, this isn't a real story unless there is romance for MC. Romance scenes are clearly a requirement for stories to be finished. I have to make her love and kiss someone." XD Then I went to college and learned about the world. XD

I do have some heterosexual adults that fall in love and have sex, though I just vaguely hint to it.

In the end, I think it just comes down to what Finchbearer said. There are no obligations. Write what feels natural to you, your characters, and your story. Does such a scene help further the plot or develop a character in a necessary way? If you feel uncomfortable or unnatural writing it, your readers will probably feel that too.

I don't read a lot of adult fiction, but I wonder if there's a similar feel there? It's not a real story if there isn't romance and sex somewhere? Bleh.

I'm sure if I tried writing a proper sex scene now I could do it, but I dunno, I just feel like it doesn't 'belong' in my personal writing, if that makes sense?

Also! This is how I feel about swearing and curse words in my books! Even though I do have characters that probably would swear under any other author, I don't swear so it feels icky, unnatural, and forced when I let them do it in my writing. Instead, I just say "He swore/cursed" or something if it is really necessary. Probably something to do with my voice that makes it feel wrong otherwise.

If it doesn't feel like it belongs, it probably doesn't!

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I think you have to keep in mind your audience and why you want to write the story.

I am scouring the world for good YA fantasy stories that don't have romance as a major subplot. I'm asexual so I'm tired of it being everywhere. However, I wrote my WIP in high school before I knew that people didn't have to fall in love to make a good story. So, I wrote a romance into my series and, having zero experience with it, had to figure out how to write a "first kiss" scene. XD I did it because I was trying to "be a writer" of a "book" and was led to believe "Oh, this isn't a real story unless there is romance for MC. Romance scenes are clearly a requirement for stories to be finished. I have to make her love and kiss someone." XD Then I went to college and learned about the world. XD

I do have some heterosexual adults that fall in love and have sex, though I just vaguely hint to it.

In the end, I think it just comes down to what Finchbearer said. There are no obligations. Write what feels natural to you, your characters, and your story. Does such a scene help further the plot or develop a character in a necessary way? If you feel uncomfortable or unnatural writing it, your readers will probably feel that too.

I don't read a lot of adult fiction, but I wonder if there's a similar feel there? It's not a real story if there isn't romance and sex somewhere? Bleh.


Also! This is how I feel about swearing and curse words in my books! Even though I do have characters that probably would swear under any other author, I don't swear so it feels icky, unnatural, and forced when I let them do it in my writing. Instead, I just say "He swore/cursed" or something if it is really necessary. Probably something to do with my voice that makes it feel wrong otherwise.

If it doesn't feel like it belongs, it probably doesn't!

When it comes to swearing specifically I tend to stick to my principals (try to not do it often) but I also try to stick to the character I'm writing. Trying to follow both principals while keeping looser lipped characters in characters is hard but it's fun too. Sometimes I have to read a character moment a few times over to decide if that character would really swear in that moment or not.

Most of my characters that swear, they tend to have the kind of personality that would allow them to swear, even if in that same situation I personally wouldn't. I'd like to avoid using swears (or any other narrative device) for shock value, so even with looser lipped characters I only make em swear when I really feel like they would.

This is just an example but like imagine I'm writing a pirate crew right? All the other pirates, they swear like an english sailor, but the captain, she has honor and finds value in not abusing the human language. She'd know the impact of words when used correctly/incorrectly, and the crew knows this, so when SHE swears, the rest of the crew knows she's royally pissed because unlike most pirates she could control her impulses to swear.

Swearing can also be a form of character growth too, if you use it correctly. Like imagine the angry Scotsman who's bitter at the world, make him mad and he unleashes a tide of swears. As he grows as a character/person, he swears less, and realizes there are better ways to express anger than swearing. (like chopping off the zombies head with a shotgun axe because sometimes the one tap from the shotgun isn't enough) Even then, he's still himself, so sometimes he swears but now he has a sense of when and where it's appropriate.

 

[pmmg]

I have no issues writing romance. I think it is one of the more fun aspects to write, cause it take a long time to develop, creates lots of good stage business, gets characters into positions where they show themselves, and has its own tease along and then reward track. The sexy bits dont bother me either, but usually this happen mostly off camera for me, or are heavily implied.

Romance in a fantasy thought, is not the same as a romance as might appear in a romance novel. For a fantasy story, its just part of the things that goes on, in a romance novel, its the source of interest and conflict. And also somewhat templated. In a fantasy, romance almost has different rules. It can be enjoyed, but the struggle does not depend on it.

I do believe in giving a story what it needs though. If you put two interested people together long enough, and something is going to happen.

 

[Fyri]

When it comes to swearing specifically I tend to stick to my principals (try to not do it often) but I also try to stick to the character I'm writing. Trying to follow both principals while keeping looser lipped characters in characters is hard but it's fun too. Sometimes I have to read a character moment a few times over to decide if that character would really swear in that moment or not.

Most of my characters that swear, they tend to have the kind of personality that would allow them to swear, even if in that same situation I personally wouldn't. I'd like to avoid using swears (or any other narrative device) for shock value, so even with looser lipped characters I only make em swear when I really feel like they would.

This is just an example but like imagine I'm writing a pirate crew right? All the other pirates, they swear like an english sailor, but the captain, she has honor and finds value in not abusing the human language. She'd know the impact of words when used correctly/incorrectly, and the crew knows this, so when SHE swears, the rest of the crew knows she's royally pissed because unlike most pirates she could control her impulses to swear.

Swearing can also be a form of character growth too, if you use it correctly. Like imagine the angry Scotsman who's bitter at the world, make him mad and he unleashes a tide of swears. As he grows as a character/person, he swears less, and realizes there are better ways to express anger than swearing. (like chopping off the zombies head with a shotgun axe because sometimes the one tap from the shotgun isn't enough) Even then, he's still himself, so sometimes he swears but now he has a sense of when and where it's appropriate.

True true! I love the escalation of flipping expectations to know something is jank. Like the character that swears all the time, suddenly says something else, or like me, I never swear unless the situation calls for intense language which has only happened once in my life and that was because the government official at the time really earned it.

However, I've found it jarring in my writing. Probably because when I was a kid, I was a Christian goody two shoes who was tired of having to cover up swear words in books to avoid them and vowed to write something for all the niche kids like me to enjoy. You know, murder and war with pure language and ~evil words~ only written off screen/behind dialogue. XD XP Harkens back to who I am as a writer, I suppose.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Okay, I think just about everyone knows we write Urban Fantasy, so it should come to no surprise when I say we write sex. It's fun. Fun fun fun. But that's us. Hot guys, hot cars, and hot nights, wherever the story is being told. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it. No worries. No one is going to read your stories and think, "Oh! If only there was more sex on the page!" Well, maybe me, but everyone also knows I'm a pervert.

I would recommend reading more books with sex, be it light, or erotic, or romance with a happily ever after. Find what you like as a person and as an artist and then you do you. You don't need anyone's permission. Write the stories you want to read. If that writer wants to know more about writing quality sex, there are oh, so many books out there that can help.

We won't talk about how many I have.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

True true! I love the escalation of flipping expectations to know something is jank. Like the character that swears all the time, suddenly says something else, or like me, I never swear unless the situation calls for intense language which has only happened once in my life and that was because the government official at the time really earned it.

However, I've found it jarring in my writing. Probably because when I was a kid, I was a Christian goody two shoes who was tired of having to cover up swear words in books to avoid them and vowed to write something for all the niche kids like me to enjoy. You know, murder and war with pure language and ~evil words~ only written off screen/behind dialogue. XD XP Harkens back to who I am as a writer, I suppose.

I do have a hard limit on swears per chapter (I think it's something like 50, but usually I don't get anywhere near that heck, I don't think I even breach 15 most of the time) but even with that window to allow my characters to swear. My characters are 'like me' enough to not swear as much if they were written by someone else. Set aside the casual 'fuck it' or similar where they aren't directing said swears at a person. (my characters tend to not swear AT people if that makes sense) Swear words are a powerful tool in a writer's tool kit, but I think if Rap has taught us anything it's that you can have too much of a good thing. One of my favorite instances of characters swearing is in the show RWBY, for most of the entire show, there aren't many swears, if at all (especially in the first 3 seasons, there aren't any I don't think) During an episode two characters are having an important discussion. The tactful use of the word 'damn' made a BIG shift in tone in the scene. But that instance only worked cause swears were largely absent before then. It is a very strong character moment for one of the lead characters too.

So my advice for swears is like the advice other folks like Lowan are giving me about the 'business end' of romance here. Do what you feel you are comfortable with but like, legit, if you think that character you're writing will slap the antagonist with a hearty 'fuck you' when their emotions come to a head, let em.

 

[Finchbearer]

I will say that of the most memorable and best books I’ve read there have been zero swear words and zero explicit sex scenes - perhaps if there has been a romantic element and we know the characters are getting down to it, it has only been implied. Most books I read actually aren’t explicit. Some have surprised me though!

 

[Fyri]

I think it can also be useful to do games and roleplays to find your comfort zone and strengthen your craft and weak spots. I don't write sex scenes in my books because that's not my tone nor target audience, but I've dabbled in the art through non-canon interactions with my characters and old friends' characters. Ha, we even did a challenge once to see how far either of us were willing to go to write about sexual interactions. I may be ace, but that doesn't mean I can't write about naughty things if the, hm, need arises. XD

 

[Finchbearer]

I am scouring the world for good YA fantasy stories that don't have romance as a major subplot.

Have you managed to find any?

 

[pmmg]

I think there is no romance in a wrinkle in time. But thats one i did not like.

 

[Finchbearer]

I think there is no romance in a wrinkle in time. But thats one i did not like.

It’s children’s book isn’t it? so wouldn’t expect much romance in that lol

 

[Fyri]

Have you managed to find any?

Right now I am enjoying the Wayward Children series by Seanan McGuire! Though, unfortunately, I think I'm starting to notice patterns in her writing that are making it less exciting for me.

 

[Finchbearer]

Right now I am enjoying the Wayward Children series by Seanan McGuire! Though, unfortunately, I think I'm starting to notice patterns in her writing that are making it less exciting for me.

Oh that’s on my (long) list - I’ll probably give it a read.

 

[Fyri]

What is a short list, anyway? Never seen one in real life.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I think it can also be useful to do games and roleplays to find your comfort zone and strengthen your craft and weak spots. I don't write sex scenes in my books because that's not my tone nor target audience, but I've dabbled in the art through non-canon interactions with my characters and old friends' characters. Ha, we even did a challenge once to see how far either of us were willing to go to write about sexual interactions. I may be ace, but that doesn't mean I can't write about naughty things if the, hm, need arises. XD

Our youngest writing partner is also ace, and it doesn't slow her kinky little brain down. It just means some of the more subtle aspects of sexual attraction go over her head, since she's never experienced them and likely won't. But that's what I'm here for. I'm the drafter on our team, and part of that involves filling in the spaces between what she wants to express and what she knows how to express.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Right now I am enjoying the Wayward Children series by Seanan McGuire! Though, unfortunately, I think I'm starting to notice patterns in her writing that are making it less exciting for me.

To be fair to Seanan, we all have patterns that can turn into ruts if we aren't vigilant. And being vigilant about your own process can be a challenge, especially when one is expected to produce four or five or more books per year.

 

[Fyri]

To be fair to Seanan, we all have patterns that can turn into ruts if we aren't vigilant. And being vigilant about your own process can be a challenge, especially when one is expected to produce four or five or more books per year.

Oh for sure! I mean, also, patterns can also be proof that something it working. I know Stephen King is often critiqued for just writing the same story for each book, but hey, if it works, you like it, and your readers enjoy it, why ruin a good thing? But at the same time, we are stronger when we are self aware and able to grow.

To be clear, I am still eager to read many more of her books right now. There are other elements that I love beyond the parts that are bugging me as of now.