Setting Descriptions in Fantasy Writing

[Finchbearer]

Currently starting the first round of editing but I’m finding this far harder than just writing the story.

There seems to be this indefinable pressure to make the prose right. One issue I’m finding a sticking point is when I’m trying to create an initial setup for the emerging plot, it’s hard to balance descriptions of the setting along with the beats of the story. It seemed relatively straightforward when I was writing the first pass, but now it feels strained.

Can anyone provide examples in their own writing from the first chapter on how they tackle this? Or share personal solutions to this problem?

 

[Penpilot]

Divide and conquer. When I do editing passes, I try to focus on only one thing.

For me, I focus on plot and character arcs first. I make sure the plot makes sense and the way the character's change makes sense. If neither of those things work, there's no point in wasting time trying to make it look pretty. It's just putting lipstick on a pig, so to speak.

After plot and character, I focus on filling out the world. That plays into the description part, but I don't focus on getting it right. I just make sure the elements are there.

The last thing I do is polish the prose.

 

[pmmg]

This section of the site is open to the public, so....some may not want to post up their own work.

Otherwise....

I am pretty minimalist when it comes to describing setting. Usually, I open a scene with enough description of the setting to not have it be a white room, and move on to the character action. This rarely goes on beyond 3 paragraphs.

This below it pretty typical (Taken from a challenge entry on the site).

Wind blew steady, filling the lone sail of an out of place Tieran scout ship. Far from home, with her oars pulled in, the low sleek vessel broke over the soft swells, water spraying only occasionally over the bow, bringing the cold, wet mist, and the salty smell of brine. The day clear, the light of Mirneth as bright as ever for those of the northern climes, even from the bow, Arulen of Tol, could see all the way to the horizons edge where the silver mist of the world finally obscured, and the bright blue water dipped. They were not alone.

Far in the distance, another ship grew from the world mist, its prow facing towards them. It would come nearer, and here, in the Wild Coasts, it could only mean one thing...

"Pirates," called one from high on the mast.

"Pirates," said Arulen, as if to mock. "Of course they are pirates."


Opening gives the setting, but moving on from that at the third paragraph break. I might hit it again as needed.


Since you asked specifically for Chapter 1's, I'll just say. Chapter ones are the worst. They have all the heavy lifting to do.

I recently rewrote the opening to my book one, and lost all the info dumpy pieces of it. Some are lost forever, but most I fit in, spreading it over several to many scenes in the new narrative. Some stuff, I just put out there knowing the reader has no reference, but its stuff they would know they can trust to be a place name or important later. That is more of an art than a science though...I dont have a formula for doing it.

 

[skip.knox]

Here's one consideration on writing descriptions: think about what the *character* sees.

When going through the initial draft, my focus with descriptions is what do *I* need to see? Mostly it's about blocking--where a door is located, or mountains off to the west, or whatever. It's really me getting myself oriented. Consequently, descriptions tend to be minimal, with plenty of white room conversations.

On another pass, I fill stuff out. This is where I try to shift my focus from myself to the character. What do they notice? Different characters tend to notice different things. This can vary even with they type of story. My WIP is mystery/adventure, so there's some sleuthing-type noticing that goes on. Clearly I need to make that strictly from character POV.

At some point, and I'm not at all methodical about this, I also look for opportunities to have the setting complement tone or theme, or even use it to complement plot. Weather and lighting play their role here, but I try to keep in mind sound, smell, even taste.

Here's what I generally do not do: I do not write descriptions with the reader in mind. I try hard not to think "here's what the reader needs to know". The reader, imo, doesn't *need* to know anything. They can put the book down any time. If they read it, they'll come to their own understandings. I can nudge and point, but I can't compel understanding. So, with descriptions, the focus is on the character first, and on those grace notes of theme and tone second (in order of attention, not of importance).

 

[skip.knox]

Also, I wanted to acknowledge that writing descriptions that fit well within the story *is* a challenge. I mean, all writing is a challenge, right?

It isn't the describing that's the challenge, as I'm sure you are finding. It's having the description fall in the right places, be the right length, strike the right notes. Here's where practice helps, but practice of a specific kind. Musicians call it developing an "ear" for the music. This entails not merely repetition, but attentive repetition, critical practice. Practicing with the specific aim of reviewing one's work, hearing what is good and what is clumsy. As any musician knows, this takes time, and your one hundredth performance will probably be better than your first, so try not to sweat the first so much that you never even perform.

 

[Rexenm]

I make sticky notes, those little yellow things, and plaster them all over my wall. Or are they called post-it’s? I don’t know. But as far as the plot goes, I make a few passes, then something snaps - and then there is a clearer picture. I get the same gist, whilst reading. The first part is a hurdle, and then I get into a rhythm. It is a bit of a switcheroo, but thinking of comparisons like that helps.

here is how I would do it

The teacher looked proudly upon the photo album in front of him, placed on the table, in view of the boy. He leant over his shoulder, and pointed his finger, as he discussed the various features. He was a brown man, his son young, and tall. The boy was ill, and his son we’re similarly so. That made them fast friends, though they were slow to the point. It was a sleep over, and they had the run of the house, until the bonfire. The bonfire was large, and it would house a party that night. He had a large family, and they were all together, in his throes, and they were gay, then.

The teacher was the tall boy’s father, but he was also a tutor, and he had taken special interest in the binoculars in the boys possession. He took the catalogue, that the boy had purchased the gear from, and identified the valuable. It was an antique, and it had served to prove that second hand items were better, for the teacher had identified history to the item, and he began to share it with the boy, wincing covetously to himself.

and

The teacher looked proudly upon the photo album in front of him, placed on the table, in [front] of the boy. He (leaned) over his shoulder, and pointed [to]his finger(s), as he discussed the various features. He was a brown man, his son young, and tall. The boy was ill, and his son were (Too). That made them fast friends, though they were slow to the point. It was a sleep over, and they had the run of the house, until the bonfire. The bonfire was large, and it would house a party that night. He had a large family, and they were all together, in his throes, and he was (loud and obnoxious).

The teacher was the (lads) father, but he was also [his]tutor, and he had taken special interest in the binoculars [anyhow]. He took [advantage and looked at] the catalogue, that the boy had purchased the gear from, and identified the [gear]. It was antique, and had served to prove[,] that second hand items(,)were better. (T)he teacher had identified history to the item, and he began to share it with the (other) boy, wincing covetously(,) to only (hisself).

sometimes proving the magic to yourself helps it ring true

 

[The Dark One]

Makes a huge difference also if it's 1st person or third.

If it's 1st, a lot of the "landscape" is internal. As an example, here are the first paras of my historical novel. There is a lot of info dump but it's appropriately stylised and is already giving info about the narrator and even small insights into his character.

Chapter 1 – The Mind of God​

It was the Year of Endings and Beginnings, when the wild men came to sweep away my old life like chaff in a sudden gale. Hard men with iron swords and huge hungers – they had not been seen on our coast for many years but we heard rumours from the north and east. Always from the sea they came and to the sea returned, and on a gentle bend of a small obscure river we thought ourselves safe from their fire and death.

It had been a quiet year in the village of Stybbor in East Anglia where my father was reeve and thegn, but less quiet in other places. The old king Edward was yet to produce an heir and, as he continued to age, the various candidates were jostling for position in the Year of Our Lord 1060. Those weighty matters were of small moment to the folk of Stybbor. The land enjoyed a period of prosperity it was said, although being a lad of only fourteen winters at the time, I had never known any different. A fruitful summer followed a vibrant spring and my interest grew like a spreading vine – tendrils of my vigour and curiosity seemed to encompass the village and its trade and, while I knew my father was proud of me, alas, I was not the older son. The older son learned the family business, the younger was given to the church.

But on the morning of my brother’s wedding, not even my conjugations with Brother Waldo and the imminent prospect of entering the seminary could curb my spirit.

‘Portendere, portendo, portendis, portendatis,’ droned my tutor, his back to the bright sunshine which bathed the usually dim room.

‘Brother Waldo,’ I interrupted.

 

[ThinkerX]

I take a 'one chapter/one POV' approach. I then describe what that character sees, learns, and experiences. If need be, I will add a sentence or three describing what that character knows about the setting.

 

[Jackarandajam]

I like thinking about the descriptions in the first chapter, particularly the first scene, as letting the reader know what they're in for. So maybe it's obviously a beautiful spring day, but your mc sees only monotonous sunshine and hears the annoying, repetitive cries of birds. Or it's a beautiful overcast rain-spitting day full of promise. Or the description matches the characters mood, either way.

Also, in the first bits of your first chapter, maybe think about the sense of your entire book. If it's an adventure, maybe the mountains or the people at the party are mysterious and exciting. If it's whimsical, the leaves are laughing in the wind. If it's full of longing and loss, maybe the mists are rendering everything in them gone forever as they creep across the city.

Basically, if your book could make your reader feel one way, what would it be? Try and evoke that.

 

[RSIngle]

Love the imagery with the ship coming through the mist. You're setting the stage, the sense of limited visibility making this an area ripe for pirates, and it also shows some character personality with his mocking response. Love it. I tend to focus more heavily on setting when there's a clear purpose behind it. For example, I have a particular scene that has deliberate "purple prose" if you will. The character is walking through a rose garden, dressed in white, and the roses are a vivid red. As she passes through the garden, the morning sunlight becomes more faint, until she's completely shrouded in fog. I do this with the intent of foreshadow and symbolism. She makes a sacrifice later, and it's violent. Hence the white gown and red roses. Walking into the mist is also symbolic of her ambiguity since this scene is another character watching her since he doesn't trust her. That's an example of a scene that's heavier on the imagery and setting. If I'm doing a scene where they're setting camp or something trivial, I really don't place much focus on their surroundings. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I will go into detail on setting when it matters to the actual plot. I'll do this with character voice too. Say a politician will pick up on an aristocrat wearing something of older fashion, signifying he's fallen on hard times. This would make him easier to exploit. Whereas a soldier will pay more attention to where the exits in the room are, how many are there, and watch hand movements, etc.
I also really like what Jack is saying with setting evoking a feeling with your reader. YES. The musician analogy was spot on as well.

 

[pmmg]

Thanks for that. That came from here:

https://mythicscribes.com/community...enge-6th-march-2024-to-16th-march-2024.25557/

Feel free to make your own entries. The weeks pass on by, but no reason you cannot enter anyone you like.

 

[Finchbearer]

Thanks all so far for your input.

Dividing and (theoretically) conquering is the pathway I’ll next take. Breaking the task up into priority order such as focusing on the overall structure first, making sure that the beats are generally where I want them to be, or where I think they should be. Then I can work on the more stylistic voice of the actual prose afterwards. I can look at themes and hooks later on, maybe on the second draft.

Skip; for me, I pretty much always start by looking at things from the perspective of the character I am focusing on within any given overall piece or section of writing, so perhaps it is the opposite problem of where to place exposition that is almost a separate entity to the character. This one is written in a mixture of close third and not-so-close third (I know that’s not a legitimate term).

I think I’m so in my head on the stylistic voice I want / need to bring to the story that I’m not seeing the woods for the trees so to speak.

Dark One; I’ve already read the beginning to your story, have on my kindle !

 

[skip.knox]

>where to place exposition that is almost a separate entity to the character.
Sure. One of the places too look at is openings. The example that comes to my mind comes from Joseph Conrad, Nostromo. He describes a port town, sweeping in almost cinematically across the water and town to focus on a particular house then a particular room. Another example, same author, is the opening of Lord Jim. But really it's done all over the place (another example, somewhat more nuanced, is Tolstoy setting up the battle at Borodino).

One thing I think I notice across the examples is that such a (more or less) omniscient view descriptive section is justified only if you intend to use that "establishing shot" (to use the cinema expression) fairly extensively in what follows. You don't need it every time your hero enters a new room (duh). Sometimes knowing when not to use a technique is as important as knowing when to use it.

 

[Finchbearer]

Establishing ‘shots’ is a good way to describe them. It’s along the lines of; there is a general folklore, and here is the characters own experience of that folklore. There is a general landscape and setting, and here is the characters own experience of existing in this world. Of course, it isn’t as linear and boring as I make it sound, but that is the gist.

Maybe I’ll put some of the various version of for critique request. Maybe.

 

[skip.knox]

The trouble I have with fragmentary critique requests is the lack of context. If, for example, we put up Tolkien's description of Minas Tirith as it appears in The Return of the King, we could certainly get some feedback. But the power of the description comes not only from the words themselves but from all the words that have come before. It's what the author has made that city *mean* the lends weight to the description. And an excerpt loses that context.

It's not that the critiques would be worthless, but that they are worth *more* in the context of the full work.

 

[Finchbearer]

I generally find it harder to offer critique on ‘dropped in the middle of the book’ type excerpts. Openings are however, in my opinion, much more open to a rounded enough critique because that’s where I’ll usually see if I want to carry on with a book or not. Specifying the type of critique requested too is probably helpful.

 

[pmmg]

Openings also dont have prior build up. They have to stand on their own.

 

[FifthView]

As with other elements in the story, descriptions of setting should do double or triple work. Consider that you aren’t describing setting so much as:

• Building theme
• Setting tone
• Showing character
• Creating tension
• Introducing conflict (or suggesting a resolution to conflict)
• Foreshadowing
• Etc.

In other words, consider how your descriptions are shaping all the rest—or perhaps how it is failing to do anything but describe the setting.

 

[Ban]

For me, the first paragraphs of the first chapter is where I paint with a few fine lines. I want the reader to know within the first paragraphs what the landscape is like, what time of year it is, what the general atmosphere is, whether there is a distinct couleur locale and to have a strong impression of the culture(s) that has/have shaped the land. Because this is a sizable task, I content myself with shaping an impression, which I approach by focusing on a couple of key concepts and spinning dialogue, narration and actions around it. I might pick a distinctly local beverage or the clashing of waves, and then expand on those by describing the taste, the temperature, the colour and so on, as well as the attitudes of the characters towards it. By utilizing such key concepts, I don't have to ask a reader to memorize and juggle around umpteen ideas, but can instead reveal the aesthetic through-lines of the story.

In the following paragraphs, and especially the following chapters I include broader strokes along my fine lines. I trust by then that the reader has a feel for the setting, which allows them to fill in the more general images the plot and prose might at times require. This is just my manner of writing though. Others prefer to start with the general and later specify that image through added detail. That is a workable approach as well.

 

[Mad Swede]

Currently starting the first round of editing but I’m finding this far harder than just writing the story.

There seems to be this indefinable pressure to make the prose right. One issue I’m finding a sticking point is when I’m trying to create an initial setup for the emerging plot, it’s hard to balance descriptions of the setting along with the beats of the story. It seemed relatively straightforward when I was writing the first pass, but now it feels strained.

Can anyone provide examples in their own writing from the first chapter on how they tackle this? Or share personal solutions to this problem?

You've asked this before, about a year ago. Whilst you can start at the point where things change (e.g. a chase, or the discovery of a dead body or whatever), you can also start with an opening where the readers eye is first drawn to the setting and then to the protagonists. It depends on how you've set the rest of the story up, and without knowing what you've written it's a little hard to say much more than that.

I use both types of opening, in both short stories and novels, and for me the opening is defined by the end of the story. Because I write the opening and closing scenes first and then the rest of the story I find that the way I intend to end the story sets up the way I want to open it. They're a sort of matched pair, I suppose. I can't explain it any more than that because I never think in terms of story models and theories when I write. It just works out that way. Which is of course no help to you what so ever.