How much magic is too much?

[Svrtnsse]

I was mainly being silly (the original quote is the other way around).

The mix of technology and magic is interesting though. What if you can enchant the parts of a machine in such a way that it produces a magical effect? Let's say you enchant the barrel of a gun so that when the bullet passes through it is transformed into a supersonic, wasp-sized golem that homes in on the intended target and hits even if a regular bullet would have missed.

Depending on how you do it, you could do some cool stuff with it.

 

[GeekDavid]

I was mainly being silly (the original quote is the other way around).

The mix of technology and magic is interesting though. What if you can enchant the parts of a machine in such a way that it produces a magical effect? Let's say you enchant the barrel of a gun so that when the bullet passes through it is transformed into a supersonic, wasp-sized golem that homes in on the intended target and hits even if a regular bullet would have missed.

Depending on how you do it, you could do some cool stuff with it.

Hmmm... now you got me thinking...

 

[Feo Takahari]

I was mainly being silly (the original quote is the other way around).

The mix of technology and magic is interesting though. What if you can enchant the parts of a machine in such a way that it produces a magical effect? Let's say you enchant the barrel of a gun so that when the bullet passes through it is transformed into a supersonic, wasp-sized golem that homes in on the intended target and hits even if a regular bullet would have missed.

Depending on how you do it, you could do some cool stuff with it.

Well, Exalted has holy guns that are powered by tiny shrines in their barrels . . .

(Come to think of it, if you want to talk "awesome," Exalted is your go-to. Everything about that setting runs on the power of cool.)

 

[Svrtnsse]

I think I would allow for enchanted guns etc in my setting if I got to that point. The limitation in that case is that all enchants (except divine ones) will expire over time. They'll grow weaker over time or just stop functioning. One of my paladins is like to be wielding a pair of enchanted handguns of some sort.

I've not delved much further into it though so I don't know what the enchant would actually do, or what type of guns they are. I just like the idea of blessed guns - similar to magical swords.

 

[Chessie]

That's true, but then it isn't really supernatural. If you're truly going to give it a supernatural property, I'd like to see a rationale for it.

I do have a rationale for it. I'm just playing with ideas here, but I thought it would be interesting to have a world where runes (powered by harvested magic from a specific light source) lit up lanterns, heated homes, heated water, and was able to power the grow light for my main character's apothecary garden. But then she's also playing with a different and more dangerous magic which is supernatural in a way. I'm trying to balance it all out to ground the story. I think it could work somehow, but the somehow is escaping me.

Edit: I will say that I'm not married to the idea of magic as technology. Part of me also thinks that the story would be just as mystical with the supernatural magic.

 

[Svrtnsse]

While on the topic of magic and machines, there's this article I wrote for my setting...
Critical Instability - Odd Lands Wiki

Basically, what it's about is how magic can't be controlled with machines, but how machines can cause uncontrollable and unpredictable magical reactions. This is one of the reasons tradition engines aren't widely used.

 

[Chessie]

Sweet! Thanks for the link, I'll check it out now.

 

[AnneL]

I think you can have multiple systems with different rules if you plan it out carefully. In my WIP there's a race of people who can do some kinds of magic through inborn ability and more or less by instinct, like learning to walk, and then there are other people who have a magical ability but have to be taught to do magic, and they are two different forms of magic. What's been really tricky for me is deciding what particular magical act belongs to which system and what kind of overlap is allowed. I decided that they had to have the same magical well, so to speak, just differences in what they can do with it. Writing-wise, the challenge has been not to explain this dual system too much.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I think you can have multiple systems with different rules if you plan it out carefully. In my WIP there's a race of people who can do some kinds of magic through inborn ability and more or less by instinct, like learning to walk, and then there are other people who have a magical ability but have to be taught to do magic, and they are two different forms of magic. What's been really tricky for me is deciding what particular magical act belongs to which system and what kind of overlap is allowed. I decided that they had to have the same magical well, so to speak, just differences in what they can do with it. Writing-wise, the challenge has been not to explain this dual system too much.

At the very core I only have one system for wielding magic: channel the aether and weave it into a spell.
However, there are different methods for doing it depending on who you are and where your talents lie.

- Channel and Weave. This is the most basic way. It's flexible and versatile, but gets complicated and difficult the more advanced effects are sought after. Only people with the ability to channel, weave or both are able to do this.
- Shamanism. Invoke the spirit of the land in order to use their power to cast a spell. This can be extremely powerful, but is crude and blunt. Achieving a magical effect often require ritual involving multiple props and participants. Anyone with knowledge of the basic principles of shamanism can do this given enough resources (including time). Persons with shamanistic talents will be able to perform the same rituals more efficiently - depending on their connection to the land and the spirit.
- Divine magic. Ask one of the gods to do magic for you. Generally reserved for paladins and other high-ranking members of the clergy. The wielder can ask for anything, without limitations, but it's up to god whether or not they'll grant it.
- Soul magic. A variant of Channel and Weave but more specialized. The wielder has a specific and intuitive understanding of something and are able to wield magic more complex than normally possible as long as it's within the specific area.
- Vampiric magic. The vampire is a parasite that attaches itself to the soul of a victim and forcibly channels aether through it, slowly eroding the soul in the process. This form of magic is both flexible and powerful, but fortunately vampires are quite rare.

 

[Hainted]

I agree with the idea of magic as universal, just different cultures have different traditions that allow for it's manipulation. I've just always had a problem with magic as technology, especially if it's just a replacement for electricity. In my WIP magic, especially enchanted objects, require a living conduit, and the person wielding the object can affect the effectiveness of the enchantment. Using the golem gun as an example, in the hands of a trained marksman who's spent time with the weapon it would be pulling shots straight out of Wanted, while in my hands it would probably hit a bullseye on a non-moving paper target 7 out of 10 shots.

As far as the garden, I could see the lamps as being either divine, or some form of alchemical reaction.

In my own world I have the following forms of magic:
-Learned: which is the traditions, formula, rituals, etc... a culture, or school has developed to manipulate reality. Dangerous, Difficult, and Dirty
-Divine: powers, and abilities granted by the gods, and wielded by the gods. Requires a lot of faith, only works if it's being done to bring glory to the deity, and only if the deity allows it.
-Inherent: Beings who are magical, and for whom magic comes as easily as breathing does to us. Fae,Daemons, Djinn, Oni, Demigods, etc... Not as powerful as the gods, but stronger than any mortal, they usually have a specific weakness or limitation.
-Bartered: People who have traded something for the ability to wield magic. Souls, first born, artistic ability something has been sacrificed to a magical being in exchange for a specific magical talent or set of powers

 

[BWFoster78]

Can stories that are magic heavy be really good?

?????

I think a story's "goodness" is completely a function of the writer's ability, not the content. A good writer can write a good story about anything. How much magic the story contains, imo, has no relevance to how good the story is.

 

[Philip Overby]

Hi everyone, that question has been in my head all day. Can stories that are magic heavy be really good? I suppose it depends on the way its done but I'm curious about the thoughts of others on what it takes to overdo it. Happy Holidays!

By magic heavy, do you mean stories that rely heavily on magic as a plot device or a world that has many different types of magic? I think Brandon Sanderson's worlds could be considered "magic heavy." If you want to see how an author handles those kind of things, I suggest checking out some of his books.

There may be stories that rely too much on magic, if that's what you're asking. For example, every problem in the story is easily solved by casting a spell or waving a wand. That might get tiresome for some readers. I've seen suggestions to limit magical abilities when possible or have some consequence for using it. If magic is used to solve everything, it may lessen the overall tension. However, a high magic world may have a different set of issues or problems to be resolved. You have to think creatively how you might cause obstacles in a world where almost anything is possible by magic.

 

[GeekDavid]

There may be stories that rely too much on magic, if that's what you're asking. For example, every problem in the story is easily solved by casting a spell or waving a wand. That might get tiresome for some readers. I've seen suggestions to limit magical abilities when possible or have some consequence for using it. If magic is used to solve everything, it may lessen the overall tension. However, a high magic world may have a different set of issues or problems to be resolved. You have to think creatively how you might cause obstacles in a world where almost anything is possible by magic.

I think when magic becomes a deus ex machina is when it's too heavy, or maybe overly used is a better term.

A magic system with clear limitations is about the best way to avoid that. Even in Eddings' admittedly magic-heavy Belgariad and Malloreon, there's a limit on how much a person can use it. Belgarath (the wise old sorcerer) nearly dies because he uses too much too quickly during a magical duel with another sorcerer.

 

[Chessie]

Phil, I have read some of Sanderson's works and I like the way he uses magic. It makes sense yet its still mysterious. I was wondering more about magic to enhance plot and conflict rather than solve problems. The magic in my stories more often causes problems (and its more than one type of magic), yet its still useful in those worlds. I'm in the process of finding balance so that things make sense. My idea is to just hit readers with the magic from the very beginning, so that they know its already part of the world and lessens the learning curve for them.

I do agree in that magic must have limits, just like any other element in a story. It all ties together.

 

[Morgyn]

Character Response to Magic

Now that I know it works and sort of what the parameters are, I want to see what to see what characters do in response to it.

Agree. Getting in the head of a character slamming into magic, going how did that happen, why, everything it takes to let the reader experience the marvel.

 

[Sam Evren]

I think the issue of magic isn't so much a question of quantity, but of treatment. I'm riffing for an idea that's hiding in the back of my mind, one I'm hoping that my fingers on the keys will tickle out of me.

We deal with magic, essentially, every day. In the sense that you describe your runes, that being electricity. I've worked with it almost my entire adult life, we each run and think on it, but truly grasping it is another matter.

Still, there are sciences devoted to it, lessons taught on the subject. Professionals work with it in various capacities.

I think the trick to treating magic properly is to treat it as a fundamental force - it may not be completely understood by anyone, and only malleable by few, but the important part is to treat it as a "real" force, rather than a tacked-on feature.

Electricians, physicists, and the like see electricity as a very everyday thing. We humans accept it as natural with greater or lesser understandings. It is an undeniable force.

So I don't think you can have too much magic. You could devote an entire series of books to the art and science of it, its manipulation, the way that it's understood, its power in the world.

Perhaps then, the key is for you, as the writer, to accept it, embrace it, and see what parallels you can find in reality. So, as your runes are everyday magic and your character explores more... esoteric magics, you can think of electricity being that fundamental magic and say quantum entanglement as a more "supernatural" analog and see where that takes you?