Made up titles

[pmmg]

So...I'm a serial Captitalizer...I have a problem.

There are lots and lots of titles floating around my tale. A lot of the Queen this, and the Captain that. Many of my titles are made up. As I write these, I just capitalize them all, it looks right and better that way to me, but a grammar nazi would say, you don't capitalize Queen, unless it before the her proper name, like 'Queen Mary spoke for the foreign queen when she said, "Queen Isabella would like some tea."'

For well known titles, I suppose there are rules, but for made up ones, well...they seem less mundane and should get a capital. I note that in Star Wars, the terms Jedi, Sith, Force and Padawan, are always capitalized. Jedi, is, of course, a made up title.

So who here is a grammar enthusiast enough to set me straight on what's capitalized and what's not?

 

[skip.knox]

Consistency wins. The technical rule would still apply. It would be "Bargle Mary spoke for the foreign bargle when she said Bargle Isabella would like some tea."

But of course the rule did not evolve with invented words, so you're free to ignore them. Indeed, since grammar rules in general were invented only a few hundred years ago by the privileged class and more or less ruthlessly forced upon ordinary folk, you are free to ignore any and all as you please. The one rule your editor, and your readers, will insist upon is consistency. Choose your own path, but stay on it.

 

[pmmg]

I'll call that a vote for leave them capitalized


I does honestly feel more accurate that way. When I say...The Steward entered the room, it is kind of in lieu of using his proper name, which at times, is unknown to the reader. So, it feels like a proper noun in that context.

 

[skip.knox]

Sure, no argument.

Things can get complicated along the edges, as is so often the case. If you capitalize Steward, for example, do you also capitalize Butler? Groom? Valet? Squire? Knight? Do only people get capitalization or objects and terms as well? The Ruby Sword will read differently than the ruby sword, but you don't really want to go capitalizing every noun. Unless you're German, in which case it'll feel comfy.

No matter what you choose, some readers will like it and some won't. And if you get enough of both, why then you're a success!

 

[pmmg]

Things can get complicated along the edges, as is so often the case. If you capitalize Steward, for example, do you also capitalize Butler? Groom? Valet? Squire? Knight? Do only people get capitalization or objects and terms as well? The Ruby Sword will read differently than the ruby sword, but you don't really want to go capitalizing every noun. Unless you're German, in which case it'll feel comfy.

And that's where all the confusion comes from. I'd not likely capitalize groom or valet, but I might if it was some type of very official title. Like secretary is not really a top of the pyramid title, but we then have a Secretary of Defense. I think I will just go with what seems right. Your basic everyday steward...no. A very important dude with the title steward, probably.

God is another one. I have been capitalizing god, if, in the perspective of the POV character, they believed it was a true god and not a false one. But...that could be adding confusion, as the reader may not know why it was captialized here and not there (well, the POV character changed). I'd like to avoid signalling this one is true and that one is not by use of capitalization. But...to make them lower case seems improper and to make them all capitalized also seems improper. Just another oddity.

 

[JBCrowson]

And that's where all the confusion comes from. I'd not likely capitalize groom or valet, but I might if it was some type of very official title. Like secretary is not really a top of the pyramid title, but we then have a Secretary of Defense. I think I will just go with what seems right. Your basic everyday steward...no. A very important dude with the title steward, probably.

God is another one. I have been capitalizing god, if, in the perspective of the POV character, they believed it was a true god and not a false one. But...that could be adding confusion, as the reader may not know why it was captialized here and not there (well, the POV character changed). I'd like to avoid signalling this one is true and that one is not by use of capitalization. But...to make them lower case seems improper and to make them all capitalized also seems improper. Just another oddity.

I went with gods and god in my book not being capitalised, but if they are named of course they are. I would capitalise a role / job if it became part of the person's name - like Captain Bilgerat, Doctor Lopemoff, King Thonesit. If your person was referred to as Steward Dumplings then I'd capitalise. As the skipper said consistency is more important I think.

 

[Finchbearer]

I have indeed been capitalising words such as Sir, Lord, Gods etc. tried to be consistent but maybe I should check on the proper usage…

 

[The Dark One]

You are the queen of your universe.

Do what thy will shall be the whole of the law.

 

[Mad Swede]

At this point I will be awkward and ask what language you're writing in? Because the grammar rules for capitalisation vary with language...

 

[pmmg]

I would not have expected anyone to be confused on that.

I am in the US (Right next to Wash DC in fact), and write in US English, with some UK spellings sneaking in.

 

[Mad Swede]

I would not have expected anyone to be confused on that.

I am in the US (Right next to Wash DC in fact), and write in US English, with some UK spellings sneaking in.

At this point I will be a lot more serious and point out that this isn't quite as obvious as you might think. In Swedish we don't capitalise when using what in English are called proper nouns, which makes writing in English a bit more of a challenge. Not everyone contributing to this site and its fora has English as a first language, so don't assume we all know when capitalisation should be used in English.

 

[Finchbearer]

Well that’s interesting because I don’t think it’s necessarily about translation. If a King is always capitalised for arguments sake in pmmg’s fantasy world, then that would be correct wether it was translated to Italian or French or Spanish, and then there is time period, if a novel is set in a particular time period, capitalisation has changed and evolved over a long period of time…and then there is where the story is set - what was capitalised in medieval Swedish society and language may not have been capitalised in English society and language…it then becomes a black hole of capitalisation.

To capitalise or not to capitalise, the question is up to the author by the sounds of it.

 

[pmmg]

Here, this site will clear it up for you.

King, Queen, Prince, Duke: Are Royal Titles Capitalized?

 

[Finchbearer]

Here, this site will clear it up for you.

King, Queen, Prince, Duke: Are Royal Titles Capitalized?

Nope, different time periods vary in the capitalisation of titles, and this doesn’t cover global differences either.

 

[Rexenm]

I’ve often wondered this. Do you capitalise Throne, but not Louvre? Or is it HMS Homo, or something like that? If there were two minds about this, then maybe you would know how to spank the monkey - but whilst there is a Pope in England, and a Royal on the Throne, then maybe knowing would get a little boring? Or not aesthetic, for a reason?

 

[Finchbearer]

Erm…my husband was in the Royal Navy when I met him and there’s no such vessel called HMS ‘Homo’

And the pope lives in Vatican, Italy…

 

[Mad Swede]

Well that’s interesting because I don’t think it’s necessarily about translation. If a King is always capitalised for arguments sake in pmmg’s fantasy world, then that would be correct wether it was translated to Italian or French or Spanish, and then there is time period, if a novel is set in a particular time period, capitalisation has changed and evolved over a long period of time…and then there is where the story is set - what was capitalised in medieval Swedish society and language may not have been capitalised in English society and language…it then becomes a black hole of capitalisation.

To capitalise or not to capitalise, the question is up to the author by the sounds of it.

Well, no. As writers we should try to use correct grammar and at that point it's the language you are writing in (or the language you are translating/interpreting to) which determines when things should be capitalised. As an example, in English you would write

"We're taking you to see the King"

But when translating this into Swedish it becomes

"Vi ska ta dig till kungen"

Sure, we can try to write in period style grammar, but that can be a bit of a nightmare in languages like Swedish or Norwegian where grammar rules have changed significantly.

 

[Rexenm]

And the pope lives in Vatican, Italy…

And gremlins live in mogwai.

 

[Rexenm]

And gremlins live in mogwai.

All I mean, if there wasn’t a problem, one wouldn’t even need to capitalise, or even use language, otherwise, it might be cut and dried..

 

[Rexenm]

All I mean, if there wasn’t a problem, one wouldn’t even need to capitalise, or even use language, otherwise, it might be cut and dried..

Because a capital seems to establish order, not usurp it.