Made up titles

[Finchbearer]

Upon some research for the time periods I’m writing in, for example in Old English (and prior to that) there were no capitalisations, but plenty of titles, due to the glyphs that were mostly all uppercase or otherwise all lowercase, so it’s my choice as the writer to include capitalisation or not I suppose, but for later time periods, if you want to sound authentic, then again, it’s the choice of the author.

 

[pmmg]

As an example, in English you would write

"We're taking you to see the King"

Actually, under current grammar authorities, we would not capitalize 'King' in that instance.

My question is kind of, if you would, why does it get a capital?

 

[skip.knox]

But if it were translated into German, it would be capitalized as König. But translations come with their own wagonload of challenges.

Not only are grammar rules the result of 17thc-19thc intellectual aristocracy trying to get everyone to follow their rules, language itself is in constant flux, and that includes punctuation, spelling, orthography, diction, the whole lot.

Even the mostly iron-clad rule of being internally consistent can be violated in certain circumstances. To me the only unforgivable error is the unintended one. If the author did it on purpose, that's fine. If the author did it without knowing it was--let's call it a variation rather than a violation--then that is truly an error and needs correction. How a translator would handle it is another matter.

One other thing worth considering on the specific topic of capitalization: you won't hear it in the audio book, so how important is it to you?

 

[pmmg]

But if it were translated into German, it would be capitalized as König. But translations come with their own wagonload of challenges.

Is this sentence in response to what I wrote above? If so, I am not writing in German. If I was, or it was translated, I'd want it to follow their rules. Since I'm not...

One other thing worth considering on the specific topic of capitalization: you won't hear it in the audio book, so how important is it to you?

Important enough that I want to get it right. Should we not have enough care for our craft to follow the grammar rules properly. Suppose it was not a simple capitalization. Would you want to read my stuff if I made up my own rules for comma's and semicolons?

 

[skip.knox]

Some writers do take wild liberties with language. I'm not usually a fan of that, with the exception of Don Marquis, but there's an audience for it.

As for caring, that was my point earlier in the post. If you break the rules intentionally and for effect, then that's fine. Doing so unintentionally constitutes error and should be corrected. First study the masters, as someone once said. Or, as I heard from another direction, you can't break the rules until you know the rules.

 

[Mad Swede]

Actually, under current grammar authorities, we would not capitalize 'King' in that instance.

My question is kind of, if you would, why does it get a capital?

Yes, you would. In this context the person is being taken to a specific king (even if he isn't named), and so in that sentence the word king is a proper noun and should be capitalised.

 

[The Dark One]

Speaking only as a reader, I don't care what rules or conventions are broken as long as the author is consistent.

One of my favourite writers of the last 30 years is Irvine Welsh and he breaks every rule in the book.

 

[pmmg]

Yes, you would. In this context the person is being taken to a specific king (even if he isn't named), and so in that sentence the word king is a proper noun and should be capitalised.

That is what I would like the rule to be. Where is that the rule?

I dont see it in Strunk and White, in the MLA, in the Chicago Manual of Style , or the APA... Where is an authoritative source that says that?

 

[sgbii]

I think the only time a title would be capital is if it's followed by a name, or is... this may sound weird... the proper name of the title. Using "king" in its own in any way I think is lowercase, but if you say King John, King of England. Or captain is lowercase but if the official title is Captain of the Watch, then make it capital? I'm no linguist but that's what makes sense to me.

 

[Rexenm]

Captain of the Watch

I think that is the way it is. Also rubbish, in between, words are juggled and lowercase.

 

[Mad Swede]

That is what I would like the rule to be. Where is that the rule?

I dont see it in Strunk and White, in the MLA, in the Chicago Manual of Style , or the APA... Where is an authoritative source that says that?

Well, given that you're in the US I refer you to the U.S. Government Publishing Office Style Manual 2016, Chapter 3 Capitalization Rules, paragraph 3.37 (on page 38) which says

"To indicate preeminence or distinction in certain specified instances, a common-noun title immediately following the name of a person or used alone as a substitute for it is capitalized."

So when, as in my example, you use the term "the King" (or any similar title of office) to refer to a specific person without naming the person the word "King" is capitalised.

I learnt this when I studied English at school and we were taught British grammar rules (it's in the Oxford English Dictionary), but I've also read it in the UN Editorial Guide (issued by the UN Department for General Assembly and Conference Management).

 

[skip.knox]

The Chicago Manual of Style will also guide you, as will other manuals of style. The wonderful thing about grammar standards is that there are so many of them.

 

[pmmg]

The Chicago Manual of Style will also guide you, as will other manuals of style. The wonderful thing about grammar standards is that there are so many of them.

Yes, but some are more recognized than others. I may find one that does an obscure thing, but that is not really industry acceptance. If all the major ones are saying the same thing, the smaller ones are better off put aside.

Anyway, the gist from the posters here seems to be 'do what you want and be consistent'. I am not sure I am satisfied with that, but the question has been answered.

I have found some places that have said something along the lines of, creative writing is different than academic writing, and so there is less adherence to the grammatical rules. Maybe I will just make up my own way and stand on that. I prefer to capitalize the crap out of those titles and its confusing not to, so....

 

[skip.knox]

Chicago Manual of Style. Seriously. APA is an alternative, but you'll rarely go wrong with the former. There really are rule books.

I wonder if the AP style guide is still operative. Reading online news stories leads me to believe all has been abandoned.

 

[pmmg]

Those guides say lower case for king.

I forget which one i used in college for the citations. It may have been APA.