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Man of Steel > Iron Man

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by Mindfire, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2017
    Jess A and Legendary Sidekick like this.
  2. Reaver

    Reaver Kwisatz Haderach Moderator

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    Meh.


    /10 CHAR.
     
  3. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    What do you mean, "meh"? This is awesome! It'll easily be the best Superman film ever made.
     
  4. Reaver

    Reaver Kwisatz Haderach Moderator

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    In your opinion.
     
  5. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    Well it doesn't have much competition, does it? Superman II was alright, but a little too goofy. Superman 3 was goofier still. Superman 4 was a disaster. Superman Returns was underwhelming. And the original Superman the Movie is extremely dated and hasn't aged too well.
     
  6. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    I'm underwhelmed. Not because of this movie compared to others but simply because Superman as a character bores me.

    Too powerful, too few flaws.
     
  7. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    Even were that true, I don't see how it has any impact on the awesomeness of this trailer, or the entertainment value of the film. And actually, in an environment where flawed heroes are the rule rather than the exception, Superman is a refreshing change of pace. A good guy whose actually a good guy? Imagine that!
     
  8. Shockley

    Shockley Maester

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    I'll wait to watch the movie before I compare it, favorably or unfavorably, to Iron Man or any other film.

    That said, the first Superman film is bad-a.
     
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  9. CupofJoe

    CupofJoe Myth Weaver

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    It will do great box office.
    At least it has Richard Schiff...
     
  10. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    I hope the movie is good, but from what I've seen from pictures to trailers, it doesn't look good to me. The actor they cast looks good for a grungy Clark Kent but as Superman, he doesn't cut it for me.

    From what I can gather from the trailer, they're taking the standard approach. With Superman being of the mindset of it's like its really hard being a god-like being. All I want to be is normal and a normal life, wahhh, wahh, woe is me, leave me alone. I think they already hit those notes with the last Superman film and it didn't work.

    To me they should have gone in the opposite direction, created something like the comic All-Star-Superman, where they totally treat his powers as god-like and imbue the world with wonder. It'd be harder writing, but at least the approach would have been fresher. To me this gritty approach is bringing Superman down, and to me that's not who Superman is. I mean, they have a poster of Superman in handcuffs. To me it looks sill because that like chaining King Kong up with dental floss.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want this movie to fail, I have high hopes, but low expectations just from what I've seen. I really hope my judgement is wrong.
     
  11. Ankari

    Ankari Hero Breaker Moderator

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    Because flaws are a source of conflict. Weaknesses too. If a character has so few of them, what are your options when trying to write a story about that character? Isn't that why DC had to fabricate some weird weaknesses? Like magic?

    A near all powerful man should have a lot of moral flaws. That keeps the story intriguing. It's the same reason why I don't like the Hulk so much. In the comics, he is nearly impossible to kill.
     
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  12. Jess A

    Jess A Archmage

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    Henry Cavill :)

    I've been looking forward to this for ages. Looks interesting! Not sure what they're going for, but I'll watch the film and see for myself.
     
  13. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I agree with the premise, but disagree that Superman's flaw should be amorality.

    In fact, his moral flaw in Superman Returns came as a disappointment. Superman knocks up Lois Lane then leaves the Earth for five years? What the hell is that! That's the sort of behavior you'd expect from Wolverine.

    Kryptonite is actaully a boring flaw, too, in my opinion. A rock that drains his powers, bah... how about showing how Superman has to compete on a grand scale? Zod, nuclear missiles, and the moral corruption in Superman III was cool because it wasn't Supes being himself or making an uncharacteristically bad decision. In any case, power shouldn't be an issue. His power is relative to that of the main antagonist, not to that of a single ordinary human, so Supes isn't necessarily OP. (If he is, blame the writer, not the character.)

    Now, if you want an interesting flaw in the area of morality that's true to the character, I'd prefer having Superman forced to hold himself to a higher standard. He can't go around killing people even when they deserve it. Why not? That's just how Kryptonian justice works. (Spend eternity in a two-dimensional prison? That's okay. But no, you can't kill them.) He would also suffer because, despite his powers, he can't save everyone. It's gotta be frustrating being this overpowered goody-two-shoes and your telescopic x-ray vision catches glimpse after glimpse of people doing the worst things to other people for petty and insane reasons. Maybe his brand of merciful "justice" gets a good cop killed because Superman wouldn't use his heat vision to melt an armed suspect's face off.

    Anyway, I know Superman's not for everyone, but I'd rather this film stay true to Superman's original roots, which is--as Mindfire put it--"a good guy who is actually a good guy." If you want morally corrupt heroes, watch Watchmen. (The most recent Watchmen is my favorite superhero movie!)
     
    Mindfire likes this.
  14. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

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    Having "flaws" doesn't mean anything that would necessarily make the character not a good guy; though, as a matter of fact, I would readily consider his excessive-good-guyishness a pretty big flaw.

    ((ninja'ed! Blasted unrefreshed page.))
     
  15. MadMadys

    MadMadys Troubadour

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    I wan't really impressed by the trailer but, as others have expressed, Superman isn't really an exciting character nowadays anyway. The appearance of his I enjoyed was The Dark Knight Returns where an elderly Batman beats the crap out of him. Other than that occurrence, I don't really enjoy following his character around.

    DC has always had, in my opinion, the weaker of the characters between them and Marvel. Though to even it out, I'd say DC has better writing overall. How this lends itself in movies is Marvel characters are a little bit more adaptable compared to the likes of Flash, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman. Again, I'm speaking in a general sense.

    Also, because I can't resist, The Watchmen movie would have been better had they not mucked up the end so hard.
     
  16. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

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    I think DC heroes are overpowered and one-dimensional, but that it forces the villains to pick up the slack.

    Like, for instance, compare Batman to Iron Man, then compare Bruce Wayne with Tony Stark. Or compare Superman to Spiderman, and then compare Clark Kent to Peter Parker. The DC "Super Hero" is more powerful, but the Marvel character is more complex and real. But when you apply the same test to the villains, DC has to make pretty extreme villains to keep up with the overpowered heroes, while Marvel villains are equally multi-dimensional and flawed, making them in some ways less impressive.
     
  17. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    The DC and Marvel heroes are the products of different eras. DC's most iconic heroes were largely forged in the era of the Great Depression and World War II, a time when the idea of purity and goodness standing up against monolithic evil was "in vogue", black and white morality was the norm, and superheroes were a relatively new idea. Marvel's heroes from that period, mainly Captain America, also share that boy scout attitude. Batman is a bit of an exception, but he was created as a pulp hero more so than a superhero.

    By contrast, Marvel's heroes were mainly born in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. A time of social and political change and upheaval. The Civil Rights movement, Watergate, Communism, Hippies, etc. Their characters are more "human" because they're not intended to be icons that inspire, like the earlier heroes. They were made to address the political and social issues of the time. The lines of good and evil weren't as clear as they were in the decades before. People were more cynical and Marvel's heroes reflected that.

    In short, DC was Lord of the Rings, and Marvel was A Song of Ice and Fire. I don't think it's fair to say one approach is less valid than the other. Just take them for what they are. Personally, DC's icons of truth and justice appeal to me more than Marvel's heroes, who for some reason fight each other more than they fight the villains. -_- And it irks me when DC tries to be more like Marvel instead of staying true to the characters they've got. If people didn't like Superman, Batman, and the rest, they wouldn't be nearly as iconic as they are. And what's more, while Marvel has done better with films lately, DC has always ruled animation. Batman the Animated Series, Superman the Animated Series, Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, Batman Beyond, Teen Titans, and most recently, Young Justice. All awesome shows that prove that DC's heroes don't have to be boring if they stay true to their characters. If the movies just looked at what these shows did right, they'd be fine.

    And Batman will always be better than Iron Man everyone.
     
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  18. Ankari

    Ankari Hero Breaker Moderator

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    In the case of Batman, wasn't he similar to Superman's moral code? I remember the watching the TV shows from the '60s with Batman and Robin. They were very White on the black and white moral gradient. I'm interested in how Batman become the Dark Knight with his dark personalities and flaws and why people forgave DC for the transition.
     
  19. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    I'm no expert but I believe there are several versions of the Batman world. They range from the very goody two shoes Batman to an extreme telling where Batman is a true vigilante and kills the evil-doers which separates himself less from the bad guys themselves.

    When the changes & alternate tellings developed? I don't know.
     
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    A lot of modern writers, both of film and literature, think that to be edgy and relevant you have to do the who demon-haunted dark hero thing.
     
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