Need help with a scene

[Ireth]

I'm having a few issues with the current scene in my latest WIP. The situation is thus: an evil elf by the name of Jarl is disguised as a human and spying through the good guys' castle for information to give to the Big Bad, Eydis. A minor character, Ailin, can slightly see through Jarl's disguise, and decides to spy on him to figure out what he's up to. At the moment Jarl is being given a tour of the castle by two of the major characters, Vidar and Eirikr; Ailin is in the same room doing some cleaning, as is his job (and the perfect excuse to go anywhere Jarl is, as long as there's something he can do there). Jarl is also questioning Vidar and Eirikr about the castle and its inhabitants while Ailin listens, unnoticed for the moment. The scene is from Ailin's POV.

Ailin isn't going to stop them from telling Jarl anything while they're with him, since that would make his attempts at secrecy moot; he's instead going to leave partway through the conversation, find Eirkir's brother Bjorn, and tell him to beware of Jarl and let others know he's a suspicious character. I'm not sure how much showing versus telling I should do with regards to what Ailin overhears the others talking about, even for this brief part of a scene; it'll be stuff he already knows, but he'll nonetheless be interested to listen so he knows what they are and aren't telling Jarl, just in case he is a bad guy as Ailin fears. Any advice on this?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I think the real question is, will they be telling Jarl stuff that the reader already knows? If yes, then I would keep it to a minimum. The more important part of the scene is Ailin passing his suspicions along to Bjorn.

You said Ailin is a minor character, but how big a part does he play in the Jarl-as-bad-guy dynamic? Is he just serving as an alert system to make the power players aware, or is he proactive in somehow causing this guy's downfall? How important is it for Ailin to know what information Jarl is working with? Surely Vidar and Eirikr wouldn't be telling a stranger anything vital about castle defenses.

 

[Chessie]

I agree with Aelowan in that if the reader knows all the info already, keep it low. Have you thought about making Ailin a minor hero of sorts? Perhaps have him play another involved role later on in the story? Something that struck me while reading your post was that this might be the perfect chance to have him help your hero later on...because he's already invested in taking out the villain. You could show him taking action (like going to talk to someone important about this), or perhaps bad guy elf drops something that gives Ailin evidence to take to a higher up. It would be interesting to see Ailin leave the scene with evidence of some sort. I hope this helps!

 

[Ireth]

I think the real question is, will they be telling Jarl stuff that the reader already knows? If yes, then I would keep it to a minimum. The more important part of the scene is Ailin passing his suspicions along to Bjorn.

Everything Vidar and Eirikr tell Jarl will be as new to him as it is to the reader.

You said Ailin is a minor character, but how big a part does he play in the Jarl-as-bad-guy dynamic? Is he just serving as an alert system to make the power players aware, or is he proactive in somehow causing this guy's downfall? How important is it for Ailin to know what information Jarl is working with? Surely Vidar and Eirikr wouldn't be telling a stranger anything vital about castle defenses.

Well, of course they won't go into detail about its defenses, but they'll likely give him a bit of a rundown on its history. I'm still trying to work out what will happen to Jarl in the end, because he isn't the Big Bad, just a henchman. He might get designs of his own to follow in Eydis' footsteps and launch his own attack on Faerie, though I don't intend to let him get that far. XD I'm thinking he'll be killed at some point, though when and by whom is still up in the air. I do have a few ideas, but it's a matter of settling on one.

I agree with Aelowan in that if the reader knows all the info already, keep it low. Have you thought about making Ailin a minor hero of sorts? Perhaps have him play another involved role later on in the story? Something that struck me while reading your post was that this might be the perfect chance to have him help your hero later on...because he's already invested in taking out the villain. You could show him taking action (like going to talk to someone important about this), or perhaps bad guy elf drops something that gives Ailin evidence to take to a higher up. It would be interesting to see Ailin leave the scene with evidence of some sort. I hope this helps!

Well, that's a bit tricky. My plans for Ailin and Jarl as of the immediate future involve Jarl figuring out Ailin has been spying on him, and doing something nasty to Ailin as punishment just before fleeing back to his mistress with what information he's gathered. The punishment might be striking him magically blind for "seeing too much", or I could be really nasty and have Jarl make him deaf and/or mute on top of that because he also hears and says too much (according to Jarl, at least). Whatever the punishment is, it will last until either Ailin or Jarl dies, whichever comes first.

I'm afraid to punish Ailin *too* badly by taking away his sight, hearing AND speech, leaving him with essentially no way to communicate (keeping in mind that this is long before the invention of Morse Code or standardized sign language); I'm afraid he might go crazy from the utter isolation and try to kill himself. But even two out of three would be horrible, and blindness alone would render him unable to do his daily work of cleaning the castle, leaving me with no real idea of what to do with him for the rest of the story. I can't see him doing too well as a fighter without the use of his eyes. That sort of thing would probably require one having been trained from birth, which Ailin hasn't.

As for Jarl, I have no idea when or if he'll die during the course of the story, as I said above. There are several plot threads I need to unravel before I get that far, and that's an issue for another thread, which I may well end up creating. XD

 

[Addison]

What if you give Jarl a false innocent tone? One that Ailin picks up? His tone, his facial expression, body posture (either over doing the innocent rescued-abductee or too curious stranger.) He'll be listening not just to know what they're telling Jarl, but why Jarl wants to know more when they've already told him enough that anyone would be satisfied. Like the walls are ten feet thick, we have wards against fae, not that they're enemies, the portcullis is sturdy metal. If Jarls asks how tall is the wall, or why the port cullis isn't stronger metal or nit picking for details, then you create something that confirms the suspicions even further.

 

[Ireth]

What if you give Jarl a false innocent tone? One that Ailin picks up? His tone, his facial expression, body posture (either over doing the innocent rescued-abductee or too curious stranger.) He'll be listening not just to know what they're telling Jarl, but why Jarl wants to know more when they've already told him enough that anyone would be satisfied. Like the walls are ten feet thick, we have wards against fae, not that they're enemies, the portcullis is sturdy metal. If Jarls asks how tall is the wall, or why the port cullis isn't stronger metal or nit picking for details, then you create something that confirms the suspicions even further.

Jarl has had the false innocent tone going all along, as well as a lot of real awe and curiosity. As for the details, that's a good idea. There isn't a portcullis, but the door is barred with iron to keep the Fae away (who normally are enemies, but these are special circumstances). But I'm sure Jarl could guess at the height of the wall, since he's seen it himself. Unfortunately, some of those details are things the reader already knows from the previous four chapters, and I want to avoid redundancy.

 

[Addison]

Then use details the reader doesn't know, that way it's a two-way, two-layer learning experience. What about inside? What is their armory or weapons like? Why don't they have this instead of that? Why don't they have vats of boiling oil or stacks of lumber? Jarl was sent as an infiltrator of sorts, and they don't do their job with bare-minimum.

 

[Ireth]

Then use details the reader doesn't know, that way it's a two-way, two-layer learning experience. What about inside? What is their armory or weapons like? Why don't they have this instead of that? Why don't they have vats of boiling oil or stacks of lumber? Jarl was sent as an infiltrator of sorts, and they don't do their job with bare-minimum.

Well, this scene takes place after Jarl has already glimpsed most of the castle (I summarized it in about a paragraph from Jarl's POV before switching over to Ailin), so he already knows about the armory, even if they're only showing him the bare minimum of what they have -- basically opening the door, going "this is this, these are over here, moving on". Jarl has expressed desires (only in his thoughts, of course) to snoop around and see more, but he hasn't yet gotten the chance to sneak away from Vidar and Eirikr. I didn't want to waste pages and pages on having them traipse through every room in the castle so Jarl could ask questions.

 

[brokethepoint]

You could describe the beginning of his sneaking, maybe describing something interesting that he finds out. You could include some close calls or what not. Then I would summarize in some way, maybe a letter he is penning, the information that he is looking to pass to the big bad guy.

 

[Ireth]

You could describe the beginning of his sneaking, maybe describing something interesting that he finds out. You could include some close calls or what not. Then I would summarize in some way, maybe a letter he is penning, the information that he is looking to pass to the big bad guy.

Well, the actual sneaking will only come after the tour, so if I do that it'll still have to wait until I'm done with this scene.

 

[wordwalker]

It seems like part of it is the sense that Jarl isn't learning anything important now, and seems to be content to drift on with the guards picking up more minor details-- that's why Ailin can risk to leaving him there to give the warning. At the same time, Ailin's suspicious not because he sees Jarl getting anything particular but because there's something about his manner that seems like he's picking their brains, combined with how Ailin is half-sure (but only half!) that he's under disguise. That's the balance you need to make clear when you have Ailin spy and then leave, and it ought to show up in the pacing and how much you skim through or cut past each thing involved.

 

[Ireth]

It seems like part of it is the sense that Jarl isn't learning anything important now, and seems to be content to drift on with the guards picking up more minor details-- that's why Ailin can risk to leaving him there to give the warning. At the same time, Ailin's suspicious not because he sees Jarl getting anything particular but because there's something about his manner that seems like he's picking their brains, combined with how Ailin is half-sure (but only half!) that he's under disguise. That's the balance you need to make clear when you have Ailin spy and then leave, and it ought to show up in the pacing and how much you skim through or cut past each thing involved.

Yes, exactly. But I still don't know how to DO that. Even coming up with questions for Jarl to ask is stalling me. I think it's because I'm deliberately starting (or at least zooming in on) in the middle of things -- the middle of the tour, the middle of the conversation, maybe even the middle of a sentence when Ailin starts really eavesdropping rather than letting the conversation be background noise. I don't particularly feel like going back mentally to the start of the tour and thinking of every possible thing Jarl could ask and every possible answer Vidar and/or Eirikr (who are not formally ranked as guards, just a visitor and a resident who occasionally take on that duty) could give him. It would take a lot of time and mental energy, and in the end I'll only use part of it anyway.

 

[brokethepoint]

ah, not sure if this would work for you but you could concentrate on his thoughts instead of the actual tour.

ya know have some fun with it

"Oh the art work is horrendous, no wonder the big boss wants them all dead."

"These stairs go on forever are they Penrose stairs!"

 

[Ireth]

ah, not sure if this would work for you but you could concentrate on his thoughts instead of the actual tour.

ya know have some fun with it

"Oh the art work is horrendous, no wonder the big boss wants them all dead."

"These stairs go on forever are they Penrose stairs!"

I've already kind of done so in the previous scene, though without those kinds of details. For the record, the Big Bad doesn't want anyone dead yet -- Jarl is just there to find out more about Faerie, and determine whether or not the "new world" is a threat. The plans for attack will come later, when Jarl returns with what he's learned. (Also, I don't know what Penrose stairs are, but I doubt they would have been invented during the Viking Age.) ^^;

Here are Jarl's thoughts on the tour, and Ailin for good measure:

He followed Vidar and Eiríkr dutifully as they led him away through the rooms and hallways, but couldn't help feeling they were only showing him the bare minimum. There was so much he wanted to explore further, like the armory and the library, not to mention those mysterious towers and dungeons.

No matter... there would be time enough for that. He would not return to Hallfastr until he had uncovered as many secrets as he could, both inside and outside the castle and its walls and wards. The forest itself seemed woven of magic. He did not understand it, but it spoke to his basest instincts, strange and alluring. He rather liked it.

What he did not like, however, was that lame-footed Ailín and his constant lurking presence. Did he have to clean every room in the castle while people were in them? And the way he stared, always watching but never able to look directly at him, was disconcerting at best. How much could he see? More than the others could, it seemed. As far as Jarl was concerned, it was too much.

#

So there's that, but it doesn't help me when I have to work with Ailin's POV at the moment. Thanks for the advice, though.

 

[Ireth]

Update: I've decided to just gloss over the questioning part for now, just so I can get on with the rest of the scene. Then again, the summary might work on its own. Here's what I've got:

Jarl was certainly nothing if not curious--far too much so for Ailín's liking. He asked about the most trivial, intricate details about the castle, from the height of the towers to where they had acquired all the fabric for the curtains and draperies. Eiríkr, thankfully, sounded reluctant to answer many of them, and either responded vaguely or outright admitted his ignorance, whether it was true or not. Had he picked up on Jarl's oddity as well?