SageBummer. How about writing some back stories of your world, or some history? Could take your mind of your problems, or until you get the ideas rolling again.
-
Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!
Random thoughts
- Thread starter SeverinR
- Start date
Bummer. How about writing some back stories of your world, or some history? Could take your mind of your problems, or until you get the ideas rolling again.
FifthView
Vala
@DotA
I'd second SaltyDog.
But instead of backstories (in case that doesn't interest you), you could go ahead and write scenes from you WIP that don't involve, or don't turn on, those points about your story that have you stumped. Scenes and chapters don't need to be written in chronological order. Sometimes simply beginning to write will inspire resolution to problems as you work out a scene/chapter in your head while writing. Besides, you can always go back and edit anything you've written, adding in the bits of world building, foreshadowing, dialogue, characters, and so forth after you've discovered these things while writing other parts.
I understand entirely where you're coming from. A couple points for you to look at when trying to figure out how this happened:
Good luck! If all else fails, set it aside, take a break, and think about another project. I have a couple huge projects on the back burner for this precise reason.
I'd second SaltyDog.
But instead of backstories (in case that doesn't interest you), you could go ahead and write scenes from you WIP that don't involve, or don't turn on, those points about your story that have you stumped. Scenes and chapters don't need to be written in chronological order. Sometimes simply beginning to write will inspire resolution to problems as you work out a scene/chapter in your head while writing. Besides, you can always go back and edit anything you've written, adding in the bits of world building, foreshadowing, dialogue, characters, and so forth after you've discovered these things while writing other parts.
I understand entirely where you're coming from. A couple points for you to look at when trying to figure out how this happened:
- Trying to design a world and other story elements in toto before writing often leads to the feeling that everything, bar none, must fit together in a perfect pattern and symmetry, absolute tightness, without gaps, and this level of perfection might be impossible at such an early stage and can easily lead to feelings of inadequacy and failure. Not everything about a story needs to be understood completely from the outset. You have time to revise, add, remove, reorder, and so forth later. And there are even elements that will never need absolute clarity and perfection, that won't need to be tied into each of the 100 other elements of your world or story.
- Sometimes, these labyrinthine difficulties are a result of introducing unnecessary elements and problems for yourself with your very first conception of a story. This happens to me all the time, where my initial ideas that form the basis of all the rest of my brainstorming are rather absurd complexities that turn out to be relatively unimportant to a story. Occasionally they'll eventually settle in, be worked out. But sometimes I just have to say To heck with this! and remove an element completely.
Good luck! If all else fails, set it aside, take a break, and think about another project. I have a couple huge projects on the back burner for this precise reason.
Last edited:
FifthView
Vala
@DotA:
I suppose I should add a third area for you to look at, although it's related to the other two.
I suppose I should add a third area for you to look at, although it's related to the other two.
- Scope. This is another one that hits me almost every single time. I start out with a story idea, everything's great, and then it balloons. And balloons. And balloons. My current WIP was inspired by the fact that I was having difficulties conceptualizing a character for one of those other projects. I started a thread about it; some great discussion ensued; and I made a comment about how I should just write a revenge tale because that would be simple re: understanding a character's initial motivation. And it would be simple. But then I started adding other elements like broad political intrigue, a foreign power threatening invasion, and so forth–a revenge tale was ballooning into an epic fantasy. The labyrinth was growing around me. I've scaled back on those other elements a little, but I'm still working on balancing various elements. Sometimes a story becomes much easier to conceptualize and write if we remove other elements and focus on a narrower story.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
Lots of good advice.
@FifthView: I relate a lot to most of the things you're saying. I am extremely perfectionist with world-building. That's why it's taken me so long to figure out these two (well, mostly one) things in a way that satisfies me. Also, the part about scope...Not directly relevant to the problem at hand, but definitely a problem I have.
I posted the question, "Why must there be humans?" here a while ago. For some reason i'm annoyed by the fact that there are humans in a world unconnected to earth and with no earth creatures, coexisting with fantasy races of my own invention...but no one else seems to think this a problem. Still, I want some kind of explanation, to make the pieces of my world fit together in the airtight way I like...None of my options for remedying this condition are good and most of them destroy quite a lot of the story.
I could entirely get rid of the fantasy races, but i really hate that idea. You guys have seen everything i'm putting into the winged race and the characters thereof.
I could make my main characters non-humans, but this would complicate things horribly. There's very little i could change about them that wouldn't destroy the story.
And most people ive talked to don't even think its a problem.
Sigh, i try to make progress, but every which way i turn i hit another wall or get tangled in another unsolvable knot...
@FifthView: I relate a lot to most of the things you're saying. I am extremely perfectionist with world-building. That's why it's taken me so long to figure out these two (well, mostly one) things in a way that satisfies me. Also, the part about scope...Not directly relevant to the problem at hand, but definitely a problem I have.
I posted the question, "Why must there be humans?" here a while ago. For some reason i'm annoyed by the fact that there are humans in a world unconnected to earth and with no earth creatures, coexisting with fantasy races of my own invention...but no one else seems to think this a problem. Still, I want some kind of explanation, to make the pieces of my world fit together in the airtight way I like...None of my options for remedying this condition are good and most of them destroy quite a lot of the story.
I could entirely get rid of the fantasy races, but i really hate that idea. You guys have seen everything i'm putting into the winged race and the characters thereof.
I could make my main characters non-humans, but this would complicate things horribly. There's very little i could change about them that wouldn't destroy the story.
And most people ive talked to don't even think its a problem.
Sigh, i try to make progress, but every which way i turn i hit another wall or get tangled in another unsolvable knot...
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
I'm thinking i should title it "oozing, festering mess of unsolvable problems," except that it doesn't need a title because it's not a book yet and probably won't ever be.
FifthView
Vala
@DotA:
Maybe Sanderson's Third Law might help you out: Writing Excuses 9.21: Sandersons 3rd Law | Writing Excuses
Summary:
"[Brandon Sanderson] So, Sanderson’s Third Law is that a writer should expand what they already have before adding something new."
Or, "to...dig deeply rather than to build widely."
Introducing 100 distinct and originally unconnected elements means trying to tie them all together. Introducing a few elements and building off of those, expanding those, finding out how those manifest in a variety of ways, might be simpler. Because they are tied together already.
Ok, this might not help your particular story, but I'll use it as an example. You have a race of winged humans and you want another race that will enslave them. Why start with the requirement that the enslaving race must be entirely separate, very odd in its own unique way? You automatically introduce the need for an entirely separate biology, an utterly different culture, and so forth. But what if that enslaving race was related to the winged humans—like a different evolutionary path? So maybe instead of wings growing out of their backs, they have tentacles growing out of their backs. (Hah I envision them using these tentacles to scale those floating cities, providing that those cities are situated upon floating hills/mountains.) You could add a few other divergences as well to make them even more different.*
*Edit: Incidentally, such a paradigm could also play off your winged humans' idea of genetic merit. I mean, here's a distant evolutionary "cousin." So it could be an example of playing off the single element of genetic merit.
Maybe Sanderson's Third Law might help you out: Writing Excuses 9.21: Sandersons 3rd Law | Writing Excuses
Summary:
"[Brandon Sanderson] So, Sanderson’s Third Law is that a writer should expand what they already have before adding something new."
Or, "to...dig deeply rather than to build widely."
Introducing 100 distinct and originally unconnected elements means trying to tie them all together. Introducing a few elements and building off of those, expanding those, finding out how those manifest in a variety of ways, might be simpler. Because they are tied together already.
Ok, this might not help your particular story, but I'll use it as an example. You have a race of winged humans and you want another race that will enslave them. Why start with the requirement that the enslaving race must be entirely separate, very odd in its own unique way? You automatically introduce the need for an entirely separate biology, an utterly different culture, and so forth. But what if that enslaving race was related to the winged humans—like a different evolutionary path? So maybe instead of wings growing out of their backs, they have tentacles growing out of their backs. (Hah I envision them using these tentacles to scale those floating cities, providing that those cities are situated upon floating hills/mountains.) You could add a few other divergences as well to make them even more different.*
*Edit: Incidentally, such a paradigm could also play off your winged humans' idea of genetic merit. I mean, here's a distant evolutionary "cousin." So it could be an example of playing off the single element of genetic merit.
Last edited:
I'm thinking i should title it "oozing, festering mess of unsolvable problems," except that it doesn't need a title because it's not a book yet and probably won't ever be.
Hey don't get depressed with your writing. Like I said for an earlier thread close to what you are saying, your are a great writer, you just have times when you slump. As with sports. As for help, go with what FithView said, some good advice there.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
Unfortunately, getting depressed about my writing is something that happens very often. I've been stuck for more than a year and a half and everywhere i turn there's a new problem. For every problem i solve two more come up. No idea how to get out of this.
Unfortunately, getting depressed about my writing is something that happens very often. I've been stuck for more than a year and a half and everywhere i turn there's a new problem. For every problem i solve two more come up. No idea how to get out of this.
I don't know how to help except to offer encouraging support. Sorry. Maybe take up a sport? (Don't know if you are already doing so.) That could take your mind briefly off your dilemmas.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
Encouraging support alone does mean something
I *am* going to try martial arts pretty soon.
Encouraging support alone does mean something
I *am* going to try martial arts pretty soon.
Well good luck with that.
Myth WeaverI did give this a fair bit of thought because it did bother me (along with most of my fantasy world civilizations being roughly parallel to others here on earth).
My solution:
The fantasy world, many tens of thousands of years ago, was a near lifeless rock in another solar system - possibly another universe, which opens up weird cans filled with extra dimensional entities. Said near lifeless rock was terraformed by alien races about the time Cro-Magnon man appeared on earth. Once terraformed, said aliens began stocking said planet with lifeforms from elsewhere, including earth. First humans were imported something on the order of 6000 years ago, and other groups were transported via starship and portal every few centuries until about 1500 years ago, when the alien civilizations collapsed. The humans were mostly workers and experimental subjects (some of these experimental subjects were genetically given psionic ability, making them 'wizards,' while others became possessed by strange spiritual entities, and became elves.)
Anymore, the overwhelming majority of the aliens are long gone, though there is abundant interesting rubble to sort through in certain places.
FifthView
Vala
So this evening I've been generating random names with Everchanging Book of Names, copying lists that I like, and then checking the names on Google to eliminate those with more than about 20K hits give or take.
And one name I thought was great, "Muke," but I discovered it's a ship name for two members of 5SOS, so over 8mil hits.
Fangirls strike again.
And one name I thought was great, "Muke," but I discovered it's a ship name for two members of 5SOS, so over 8mil hits.
Fangirls strike again.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
So this evening I've been generating random names with Everchanging Book of Names, copying lists that I like, and then checking the names on Google to eliminate those with more than about 20K hits give or take.
And one name I thought was great, "Muke," but I discovered it's a ship name for two members of 5SOS, so over 8mil hits.
Fangirls strike again.
Haha! Muke, though? Like puke with an M? What kind of character would that be for? (Sorry that's just what it made me think of...)
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
My problem is that I can't figure out a solution without going into the need for sci-fi technology that my world doesn't have, or else having to change a lot about the story. I had several ideas:
-humans were created by the dominating race to be slaves from genetic information from the various races (didn't eliminate their rebellious, freedom-craving temperaments though, I guess...)
-humans were the evolutionary ancestor of the races (this could take a post-apocalyptic direction, which isn't that plausible...but, why do they still exist in the same form? Also it doesn't make sense at all.)
-the fantasy races were artificially created using genetic information from other sources, originally humans were the only race.
-there are no humans (my human characters would need to be changed to nonhuman)
-there are no nonhuman races (my nonhuman characters would need to be changed to human)
None seem favorable...
FifthView
Vala
It sounded good for the sidekick/servant of the villain--maybe. Or some future street urchin. But I was checking about fifty, sixty names, for various characters and for a pool of names for incidental characters that might come up later.
My fantasy worlds are far from high tech, though that is starting to change in places. The super advanced alien tech does exist in places, but it's mostly broken or functions poorly at best. And the time of alien dominance is effectively a myth for most people.
I also very deliberately chose aliens that are ALIEN. They are not remotely humanoid. They do not think like humans, period. (Though their motivations for terraforming the fantasy planets and importing other lifeforms are superficially graspable.)
There used to be quite a few stories like that, or at least had backgrounds like that. The one that leaps to mind is Butcher's 'Codex Aleria.'
Something similar might work for your world: an outside force, for inscrutable reasons of its own, imported life of all sorts to a given world, including humans and others. Some races it tweaked, others it left untouched. Perhaps there was more than one 'outside force.' That force is now spent, little more than myth, as are its motivations. Consider that whole episode a mystery to be explored in a future tale.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
The frustrating thing is that the origins of the races have very little relevance to the story. Except, perhaps, that the humans are enslaved at the start of the story, while the races are almost wiped out. Why enslave only the humans?
I'm trying to come up with reasons for these things without drastically changing the story.
I'm leaning toward the idea that originally there were only humans, but the races changed themselves (or evolved naturally, or a combination of both) then the humans were somehow returned to their original state. No idea how, or why, though.
FifthView
Vala
Branching evolution/change. A population of humans in X location mutated/evolved, but those in Y location did not.
Scientists on our world now suspect that many pre-human hominids evolved in Africa this way, then mated with one another from time to time, which led to more variation but also sharing of various traits. So a population of one type of hominid in northern Africa, or some individuals from that population, might have mated with members of a different hominid species in eastern Africa, and so forth. (Although perhaps "species" may not be the right word. Sub-species?) This may have occurred many times before humans ever appeared.
I've been a little confused about your society of winged humans, because some of your descriptions make them sound fairly advanced, with some rudimentary science, but in other descriptions they seem less advanced. So maybe they don't know about genetics, per se, but they do know about breeding. (They may assign special significance to "blood," for instance, rather than genetics.) So you wouldn't necessarily have to introduce the idea of evolution. Think about the way the orcs and Uruk-hai were created in LOTR. You could use the ideas of corruption, magic, simply "bad breeding over many generations," or something similar to explain the variations.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
They understand heredity, that some traits are dominant and others recessive, that like begets like (similar to what Gregor Mendel observed). They don't understand what causes it.
Their society progressed differently than ours. They are fairly advanced in medicine, but some technologies they never developed because they have alternatives. For example, they don't need electric lightning because they use bioluminescent organisms for light.
Keeping their cities in the air would require rather advanced technology, though. I'm not entirely sure how they keep their cities in the air, or if it will even require much explanation.
But, they could have knowledge of evolution. Discoveries could have occurred much earlier. History would be different.
