Schwarzseher
Dreamer
For my world building I have a problem with respect to above mentioned subjects. To illustrate my point, maybe an example from a probably familiar setting: World of Warcraft.
It always annoyed me that Nightelves had druids and priests, Trolls shamans and priests and Tauren shamans and druids. Alright, in World of Warcraft they function as different kinds of spell casters, thus playstyles; so it is understandable. However, priests, druids and shamans “in reality” are members of a spiritual caste, i.e. keepers of knowledge and wisdom, observers of sky and stars, responsible for religious rituals, sacrifices, etc.
Now let us just assume the leading principle of druids is nature, of shamans it is spirits, of priests it is light: How could these principles coexist? Mind: principles not rites or customs. I think it is reasonable to assume that (within respective cultures) there would be a conflict of these principles and only one would succeed. Yes, Paganism and Christianity, i.e. Monotheisim somehow were both practiced in Europe. However, this was a transition phase and in the end Christianity came on top while Paganism is no more – experts in this matter shall feel free to correct me.
In a nutshell: If two contrary principles exist, either one will prevail or followers of the different principles will split; and therefore just delay the conflict or shift it to another level.
Back to my world building. In mentioned context, I want to implement the following:
§1 Realism
Yes, in a fantasy world realism must be “bent” to a certain extent. However, I hope to create a setting with main features that can be explained reasonably and where something like “fantasy: it is as it is” remains a rare occasion.
§2 Magic
Supposed to be a science albeit a mystical one.
There are only few mages (maybe similar to the setting in The Witcher) and using magic is risky.
Mages are overall respected or feared, but eyed with mistrust.
Elemental magic: based on the elements water, air, fire and earth – i.e. full cliché mode.
Necromancy: rising the dead. Unsure about death’s counterpart life (Biomancy, Zoomancy?!?!). I fear it can too easily get out of control (world building perspective). Perhaps there will be some form of limited control over living beings, like plants or animals, almost certainly not over humans.
§3 – Religion
It shall remain faith. No healing “magic”. Obviously, law and order will be connected to Zeus, thunder and lightning to Thor and love to Venus, but there won’t be a God appearing in a scene giving a protagonist advice or smiting an antagonist. Same with demons and other forms. They might be in the consciousness of the people and also feared, but demons will neither roam the streets at night to hunt people down nor will they have some beers with mortals or Gods after work.
Religion will neither be to be shown as a scam nor will priests seen as charlatans.
Priests are also respected or feared, but unlike mages trusted.
The problem:
It does not seem reasonable. Let us just think about the following scenarios: There is a priest of Poseidon pleading and sacrificing to his God, but without predictable result. At the same time there is a mage which is able to control the waves. We have an elder priest, wielder of the holy hammer of Vulcan which is slain by a junior tramp, while one stone’s throw away a young sorceress within a blink of an eye burns a bunch of veteran cutthroats to ashes.
Both examples are extreme, and according to my ideas such magic shall be only possible for grandmasters of the arcane art. Still, my point should be clear: For everyone it is obvious that mages have control over elements, while priests have not. For what reason should people trust and follow the priest caste? Certainly a conflict would arise between mages and priests. Isn’t it realistic to assume that people (including mages and priests themselves) would think that the mages are closer to the Gods than the priests. Result: Mages would either replace the priest caste or at least be placed above the priests.
I considered to connect priests exclusively to abstract principles like law, order and justice. Would anyone buy that? I do not think so. Priests as a caste of healers in the sense of doctors? Guess, such a pantheon could be created, but appears too mundane, more like a lame excuse and not really believable. Obviously, life and death are the classic domains for priests. Well, a scheming necromancer can raise the dead but the Grandpriest of Hel, i.e. the highest authority of knowledge about the dead, the first servant of the Goddess of Death, cannot? Doesn’t make sense, don’t like that…
Well, this is the bind I found myself into. Though I wonder: Are my assumptions and conclusions correct? Do I miss something? Admittedly, I noticed that I listed contras, but no pros. Did I lose track and get bogged down into details?
Has anyone had similar thoughts about the relation religion-magic?
It always annoyed me that Nightelves had druids and priests, Trolls shamans and priests and Tauren shamans and druids. Alright, in World of Warcraft they function as different kinds of spell casters, thus playstyles; so it is understandable. However, priests, druids and shamans “in reality” are members of a spiritual caste, i.e. keepers of knowledge and wisdom, observers of sky and stars, responsible for religious rituals, sacrifices, etc.
Now let us just assume the leading principle of druids is nature, of shamans it is spirits, of priests it is light: How could these principles coexist? Mind: principles not rites or customs. I think it is reasonable to assume that (within respective cultures) there would be a conflict of these principles and only one would succeed. Yes, Paganism and Christianity, i.e. Monotheisim somehow were both practiced in Europe. However, this was a transition phase and in the end Christianity came on top while Paganism is no more – experts in this matter shall feel free to correct me.
In a nutshell: If two contrary principles exist, either one will prevail or followers of the different principles will split; and therefore just delay the conflict or shift it to another level.
Back to my world building. In mentioned context, I want to implement the following:
§1 Realism
Yes, in a fantasy world realism must be “bent” to a certain extent. However, I hope to create a setting with main features that can be explained reasonably and where something like “fantasy: it is as it is” remains a rare occasion.
§2 Magic
Supposed to be a science albeit a mystical one.
There are only few mages (maybe similar to the setting in The Witcher) and using magic is risky.
Mages are overall respected or feared, but eyed with mistrust.
Elemental magic: based on the elements water, air, fire and earth – i.e. full cliché mode.
Necromancy: rising the dead. Unsure about death’s counterpart life (Biomancy, Zoomancy?!?!). I fear it can too easily get out of control (world building perspective). Perhaps there will be some form of limited control over living beings, like plants or animals, almost certainly not over humans.
§3 – Religion
It shall remain faith. No healing “magic”. Obviously, law and order will be connected to Zeus, thunder and lightning to Thor and love to Venus, but there won’t be a God appearing in a scene giving a protagonist advice or smiting an antagonist. Same with demons and other forms. They might be in the consciousness of the people and also feared, but demons will neither roam the streets at night to hunt people down nor will they have some beers with mortals or Gods after work.
Religion will neither be to be shown as a scam nor will priests seen as charlatans.
Priests are also respected or feared, but unlike mages trusted.
The problem:
It does not seem reasonable. Let us just think about the following scenarios: There is a priest of Poseidon pleading and sacrificing to his God, but without predictable result. At the same time there is a mage which is able to control the waves. We have an elder priest, wielder of the holy hammer of Vulcan which is slain by a junior tramp, while one stone’s throw away a young sorceress within a blink of an eye burns a bunch of veteran cutthroats to ashes.
Both examples are extreme, and according to my ideas such magic shall be only possible for grandmasters of the arcane art. Still, my point should be clear: For everyone it is obvious that mages have control over elements, while priests have not. For what reason should people trust and follow the priest caste? Certainly a conflict would arise between mages and priests. Isn’t it realistic to assume that people (including mages and priests themselves) would think that the mages are closer to the Gods than the priests. Result: Mages would either replace the priest caste or at least be placed above the priests.
I considered to connect priests exclusively to abstract principles like law, order and justice. Would anyone buy that? I do not think so. Priests as a caste of healers in the sense of doctors? Guess, such a pantheon could be created, but appears too mundane, more like a lame excuse and not really believable. Obviously, life and death are the classic domains for priests. Well, a scheming necromancer can raise the dead but the Grandpriest of Hel, i.e. the highest authority of knowledge about the dead, the first servant of the Goddess of Death, cannot? Doesn’t make sense, don’t like that…
Well, this is the bind I found myself into. Though I wonder: Are my assumptions and conclusions correct? Do I miss something? Admittedly, I noticed that I listed contras, but no pros. Did I lose track and get bogged down into details?
Has anyone had similar thoughts about the relation religion-magic?