Removing the Concept of Marriage

[skip.knox]

Looking Backward was one of the first oh, 20 or so books I ever owned. It's not a great read, but it is a great summary of the utopian socialist (though Bellamy ducked that word) view of the world. As conservative as we like to portray the Victorian Era, and it was in most ways, there were some surprising little offshoots and examples of free thinking.

 

[J Q Kaiser]

Looking Backward was one of the first oh, 20 or so books I ever owned. It's not a great read, but it is a great summary of the utopian socialist (though Bellamy ducked that word) view of the world. As conservative as we like to portray the Victorian Era, and it was in most ways, there were some surprising little offshoots and examples of free thinking.

Yeah, a lot of the writing from the 19th century (fine for the conventions of its time) is difficult, at best, to make it through today. For example, any Cooper novel other than Last of the Mohicans is comparable to crawling through broken glass. Even Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin which is historically significant is a source of many student grievances due to the writing style.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

“Jane’s breeder is Bob over over their, but Jane’s love is Sally, over there.”

This is how I imagine Amazon tribes work.

Agreed.

My $0.02: I guess it's that^ which Demes-Ned-eNoir (memory trick—eNoir is darkweb email) said plus my interpretation of it: if you're taking marriage out, have a reason.

I'm married, so I have my own views on what a beautiful thing marriage is. But the idea of Amazons wanting to live away from men and remaining manless—except for the queen—that makes sense. Bees are like that. (1 female = queen, every other female = warrior, all males = breeder-gatherers)

So there you have it. A reason and animals do it, so the system works.

For bees and Amazons, anyway.

 

[skip.knox]

Yeah, a lot of the writing from the 19th century (fine for the conventions of its time) is difficult, at best, to make it through today. For example, any Cooper novel other than Last of the Mohicans is comparable to crawling through broken glass. Even Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin which is historically significant is a source of many student grievances due to the writing style.

True dat. I recently re-read Verne's Journey to the Center of the Earth and was surprised at how clumsy the thing was. I expected it to be preachy (and it is), and I'm fine with the writing style. It was the pacing that got me. That, and the fact that they didn't really find much. They went down, yup it's hollow, and up they came. More scientifically realistic than the Disney movie, but less fun.

 

[J Q Kaiser]

Last year I tried to read the John Carter series. Ouch. The text hasn't held up well. I was so disappointed as I had set aside time to read through the entire series. Instead, I just read some Discworld books and a handful of Sword & Sorcery titles that I had on my to-read list.

 

[Dark Squiggle]

This is how I imagine Amazon tribes work.

Agreed.

My $0.02: I guess it's that^ which Demes-Ned-eNoir (memory trick—eNoir is darkweb email) said plus my interpretation of it: if you're taking marriage out, have a reason.

I'm married, so I have my own views on what a beautiful thing marriage is. But the idea of Amazons wanting to live away from men and remaining manless—except for the queen—that makes sense. Bees are like that. (1 female = queen, every other female = warrior, all males = breeder-gatherers)

So there you have it. A reason and animals do it, so the system works.

For bees and Amazons, anyway.

One little problem - human females are not as fecund as bees. you'd need nearly a 7:1 ratio of warriors to breeders, assuming the breeders are eternally pregnant to maintain the population. Not saying it can't work, but it can't work as well.

 

[Saigonnus]

The Aiel of Robert Jordan’s wheel of time in interesting for marriage... one man can marry up to three women, but only a wise-woman can marry, before that, they are spear-sisters and can have relations with anyone they choose, and not all women become wise-women.

In my own world-building I have a culture of people that don’t have formal marriage at all. Children born to a woman only stay with the mother until they can walk/talk and eat on their own. After that, they are sent to a community school, where they live in a barracks type environment overseen by two or three instructors (they vary depending on what the students are learning). They rarely see the mother/sire and take a last name dependent on their chosen profession rather than who sired them.

Yes, men and women sometimes stay together for years if not their entire lives, but it isn’t that common.

 

[J Q Kaiser]

Oh, another idea. I worked as a TA almost a decade ago and had to teach the book Three Cups of Tea. In the process we had to discuss how marriage can work in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Some Muslim sects allow for, within polygamy, temporary marriages. Generally they are used by merchants. Both parties contract the marriages for a period of time (one month, six months, four years, etc.). When the marriage period ends the woman (generally) is given a contractually agreed upon sum. It also makes any intimacy had within the relationship legit (i.e. not forbidden or sinful). So this could be interesting if applied to fantasy. How might temporary, contractual marriages workout out where both parties know there is an end date?

I also want to make clear not all Muslims accept the legitimacy of temporary marriage. It is part of the division between Sunni and Shia on history and doctrines.

 

[Laurence]

How seriously is monogamy taken in your world?

If not at all, you may have no need for an alternative to marriage.

If monogamy is everything, perhaps there are different categories for varying levels of partners e.g. the elders are a rank 5, 50 year partnership and therefore high status.

 

[TheKillerBs]

How seriously is monogamy taken in your world?

If not at all, you may have no need for an alternative to marriage.

If monogamy is everything, perhaps there are different categories for varying levels of partners e.g. the elders are a rank 5, 50 year partnership and therefore high status.

If you don't have a concept of marriage, you'll have even less of a concept of monogamy.

 

[Miles Lacey]

How seriously is monogamy taken in your world?

If not at all, you may have no need for an alternative to marriage.

If monogamy is everything, perhaps there are different categories for varying levels of partners e.g. the elders are a rank 5, 50 year partnership and therefore high status.

A very Euro-centric and narrow interpretation of marriage indeed!

Doing away with monogamy or not valuing it does not do away with the institution of marriage.

There are many cultures where marriage involving more than husband and wife is involved. In most Muslim-majority countries polygamy is legal. In some countries like India, Sri Lanka, Singapore and the Philippines marriage is legal for Muslims but not non-Muslims. In Australia, New Zealand (where I live) and the United Kingdom polygamous marriages are recognised if the marriage took place in a country where polygamy is legal. Many traditional cultures have multiple partner marriages under traditional custom if not the law of the land.

 

[Laurence]

A very Euro-centric and narrow interpretation of marriage indeed!

Doing away with monogamy or not valuing it does not do away with the institution of marriage.

There are many cultures where marriage involving more than husband and wife is involved. In most Muslim-majority countries polygamy is legal. In some countries like India, Sri Lanka, Singapore and the Philippines marriage is legal for Muslims but not non-Muslims. In Australia, New Zealand (where I live) and the United Kingdom polygamous marriages are recognised if the marriage took place in a country where polygamy is legal. Many traditional cultures have multiple partner marriages under traditional custom if not the law of the land.

Good point, I smashed that post out too hastily.

What I should’ve said was ‘longevity’.

Whatever does / doesn’t replace marriage in your book can be based on how much of a place relationship longevity has in your society e.g. accumulating some alternative to badges to mark years together.