Scene change identifier.

[SeverinR]

I have recently read two books that changed scenes/point of view with no warning. Simple paragraph change.

paraphrased-

(Paragraph-)He steps out from behind the bush, pulling his dagger, but the mage spins, a blast of energy erupts from his hands knocking him backwards.*
(paragraph-)"What's he doing?" Elsbeth asks.
(paragraph-)He's staring at the ground."

My thoughts: He's getting fried while your asking stupid questions!
Wait, who's staring at the floor?

This was actually the end of one scene, switching to another character's pov and back in time minutes before the previous sentence.
* is the end of one scene. no blank line, no line with a symbol, just normal paragraph for dialog.

The other was a minor scene change, it was confusing but the change was enough to know they were different.

But aren't scene changes suppose to have some identifier to let the reader know?

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Normally, yeah. If they don't, they run the risk of confusing the reader, which is usually not what the author is trying to do. If the author is trying to confuse the reader, he's going to get some angry readers.

 

[Shadoe]

Usually, when I see something like that it's a typesetting error. It IS annoying. I usually break up scenes. Heck, sometimes I put a break in a scene if I want to change the POV character. Though I haven't seen how well that worked yet.

 

[writeshiek33]

i am new to writing what example of a scene changing idenifyer

 

[Devor]

i am new to writing what example of a scene changing idenifyer

Ohh, I'm not sure. I guess there's a few. Let me go look one up.

* * *

Okay, I'm back, it looks like there's often a series of asterisks that's used. . . hold on, this will just take me a second to read.



Huh? Apparently they can just use an extra line between text. Who knew. Then, hold on again, one second.

Devor reads about in-text transitions at length. Meanwhile. . . somebody else responds!

 

[danr62]

Usually I just see a block of empty lines unless there is a page break, in which case three centered asterisks, bullet dots, or some kind of artwork might be used.

At other times one of the above is used for every scene change.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I prefer when there's an explicit marker: asterisks, dots, artwork. The "three empty lines except at a page break" thing always bothered me; why not have it always be the same? Then again, I'm a programmer by trade, so exceptions tend to bother me. ;-)

 

[Kelise]

It's allowable, and very common these days. Especially in YA where standards seem to have dropped dramatically. This doesn't mean it should be done, though.

It's best to keep scene changes (same POV) to have a small little symbol (that matches the cover or font of the book somehow) and scene changes (and POV changes) to a new chapter entirely.

Otherwise yes, you'll annoy a lot of readers.

 

[danr62]

That's something that really annoyed me when I first started reading the Shannara books. I kept thinking, "Who's head am I in?"

 

[SeverinR]

For manuscripts I have read the change should be commmonly(check local preferences before submission)

last line of current scene or pov.
#
Next pov or scene begins.

The scene I offered was truly annoying, the intensity of the action and the main character asks what the other MC(long time friend) is doing, when the previous sentence made it clear he was being fried by a mage, was annoying to say the least.
It was change of pov and time with no warning.

 

[Erica]

i am new to writing what example of a scene changing idenifyer

Often in a novel it's just a blank space. Some publishers use a little symbol of some kind. I also remember reading somewhere that in a submission, the publisher wants the author to put a # symbol in to indicate a scene change (and then they'll insert whatever it is they use in its place).

 

[August Griffin]

Maybe I'm not getting the gist of this thread, but my confusion might be helpful to some anyway. This is my take.
two
lines
***** (five asterisks)
This indicates a pov switch, a head swap. In third person, you should stay in that head until you see the lines again, regardless of chaptering. Agreed?
If you are finding exceptions to that, please explain. I'm assuming that the whole book was omniscient or something, in which case, nothing should surprise you. Are you saying poor writing caused the confusion, poor editing? ????

 

[Steerpike]

I most books I read, I find skipping an extra line or two indicates a scene change or POV change. In manuscripts, it may be indicated with asterisks, but I don't often see that in the final work.

I have seen POV changes in a third person work where the POV shifts mid-scene, without any kind of break or other identifier. I think there is a Virginia Woolf story where the POV shifts mid-paragraph, even.

 

[August Griffin]

I grabbed the nearest book, Barker, "Imajica," and you are correct. Single line breaks for pov change and scene change.
This is unfortunate. Should we suspect it grew from a cost saving measure?
It also had CH 6 pt 1 &2 but they featured the same pov, so I failed to grasp the relevance. Good thread. Enlighten me further!

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Skipping a line or two to indicate scene/POV change is fine, unless it happens at a page break, in which case you need an explicit marker to indicate that there was a scene/POV change. But my view is, why have two different mechanisms? Why not always use a marker?

 

[Steerpike]

Skipping a line or two to indicate scene/POV change is fine, unless it happens at a page break, in which case you need an explicit marker to indicate that there was a scene/POV change.

Funny that you mention that, because I was reading one of Steven Erikson's Malazan books on my Kindle last night, and it just so happened that the break between POVs came at a page break (or at least where there was a page break on the Kindle). It took me a few sentences of reading to realize something was amiss, and then clicked back to the previous page and realize that it had indeed ended one line short of the bottom of the screen. I think the idea of using a marker is the best way to go with eReaders, where varying screen sizes and user preferences on font and font size can affect how a skipped line or two shows up.