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Sexually explicit in fantasy - yay or nay?

Mythopoet

Auror
I guess you don't like a Song of Ice and Fire much? One great scene connecting Daenerys and Carl Drogo was described through sex. It can color a relationship in a unique way. Not that I enjoy or care if there is sex (I am neutral on the matter), just saying, why throw out a tool?

Because it's not a tool that fits the job you're trying to accomplish? Like a dentist using a power drill or an archeologist using dynamite. And yes, I hate A Song of Ice and Fire.

No sexually explicit scenes fore me either. I don't like reading it or writing it. That doesn't mean no sex. It means talking about (briefly, I don't like whole scenes devoted to sex in any terms) it in terms that are not anywhere near explicit or the good old fade to black. Sex scenes are just not at all the type of experience I'm looking for in my reading material or in the stories I write.
 

Velka

Sage
I wouldn't be adverse to writing sex scenes into my work if they added something important to the story or characters, but thus far I've never written a story where one was necessary. Explicit sex scenes however, ugh, there's so many ways those can go wrong.

I read and write fantasy for adventure, characters facing overwhelming challenges and growing from them, and the occasional dragon. ;) Heaving breasts and throbbing members need not apply.

I've read some general fiction/sci-fi/fantasy where sex was included in various detail. I find, as a reader, I prefer 'alluded to' sex scenes much more than paragraphs of explicit detail. The latter are usually jarring and read more like the closed captioning of a porn movie.
 

PaulineMRoss

Inkling
{Holds hand up}

My books all end up with a certain amount of sex in them. They have a strong romantic element, and if you're exploring the development of a human relationship that's going to end in sex, then addressing that in more than vague terms becomes essential, I think.

The first time a couple have sex is such a major change in the relationship, that it would feel like cheating to fade to black and skip straight to the next morning. And where sex is part of the conflict between a couple, it really can't be ignored. There are ways of making the same point (like talking about it afterwards, or whatever), but to my mind there's no substitute for being there with the two of them, knowing what they say, how they behave, how they feel. It doesn't have to be wildly explicit, though, just enough to give the general idea.

But for those who don't deal with romance, or leave it at the Aragorn/Arwen level of tastefulness, it's not necessary, no.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
One great scene connecting Daenerys and Carl Drogo was described through sex. It can color a relationship in a unique way.
Great example. In this case it certainly served a story purpose to actually show the act, Drogo continuing the domination of a submissive Daenerys...the baseline of her character arc and transformation to a powerful leader.
 

Reilith

Sage
Why I actually asked this question is because I am thinking of portraying a certain amount of sex in my wip, even though the first novel follows the MC as a young adult/teen. But since I am making this hid coming of age story (while the 2nd and 3rd are when he's over twenty) I think that some sexual portrayal is necessary to show his growth and his coming to terms with homosexuality. I do think I will keep it tasteful and short, just enough to show what is necessary for character development, not word filler.
 
C

Chessie

Guest
Reilith, if you believe writing sex scenes develops your plot and characters, then go ahead and do so. How much of it you write depends on your comfort level and your target audience. Keep them in mind.

Great example. In this case it certainly served a story purpose to actually show the act, Drogo continuing the domination of a submissive Daenerys...the baseline of her character arc and transformation to a powerful leader.
Not to be a prude, but I actually hated this scene and found it offensive. Oh, so she can only transform as a woman through sex? That's what that scene had me thinking, that she wouldn't have otherwise been a great and powerful leader if Drogo hadn't asserted sexual dominance over her. So...she didn't have a brain or any other skills to develop maturity? This is one of the reasons that yes, I do boycott A Song Of Ice And Fire. I don't think that scene developed her at all and just made her look bad. Rant over (with much respect dear moderator).

Sex is one of those tricky writing tools. I don't mind it in the appropriate setting/story like in Pauline's romance novels. That's what its meant for. But if its an epic fantasy or a regular tale, it just doesn't fit for me.
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
Not to be a prude, but I actually hated this scene and found it offensive. Oh, so she can only transform as a woman through sex? That's what that scene had me thinking, that she wouldn't have otherwise been a great and powerful leader if Drogo hadn't asserted sexual dominance over her. So...she didn't have a brain or any other skills to develop maturity?
You may be missing my point. The scene doesn't serve to show her becoming a woman through sex. Sexual activity doesn't define womanhood. Rather, it serves as a starting point.

Her brother dominated her & kept her under his thumb...a tool for his reclamation of the throne. Drogo continued that domination in their first sex scene. The scene serves as the baseline, the bottom rung of her character arc, if you will, in becoming Khaleesi & Mother of Dragons.

Could she have risen to power without submission to Drogo? Probably, the character is clever, compassionate, & bold. But, the transformation would not be as dramatic.

Applying a baseline like this one to the arc, grounds the reader in a past far removed from the Queen she becomes.
 
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Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
I don't typically write sex scenes in fantasy works myself and I'm not a huge fan of reading them either. If they're done well, I don't mind them as much though. I tend to have lots of violence in my stories, so I can't really rail against people that use a lot of sex. But it's just my personal preference to not write it.

While I'm a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire, I may be able to clarify why some think these scenes are important without getting too graphic. Basically, when Drogo and Dany are first together, he was dominant. Then when she decided she didn't want to be dominated anymore, so she decided what to do. This is just one thing that showed her evolution as a character. I didn't see it as "This is the moment she becomes powerful," but as one of several smaller moments. I think her big moments came towards the end of the first book and involved her taking the reigns completely.

Edit: T. Allen ninja'd me.
 
C

Chessie

Guest
I understand your point completely, T.Allen. I was simply providing a different (female) perspective on it. And I still disagree. She could have done without that scene, just my 2 cents.
 

SD Stevens

Scribe
If I remember right it wasn't that she was innocent, Daenerys leads the way so to speak. But that brings up another subject (films/tv spoiling the dam plot line and adding sex!
 

T.Allen.Smith

Staff
Moderator
I understand your point completely, T.Allen. I was simply providing a different (female) perspective on it. And I still disagree. She could have done without that scene, just my 2 cents.
I appreciate the perspective.

Yes, she could've had a low baseline set by having her early submissiveness formed in another fashion, other than sex.

I can't disagree with that. However, I wonder any other choice GRRM could've made would create the same visceral reaction in his readers.

Interesting to think about.
 

Nimue

Auror
Those scenes always made me uncomfortable because she was thirteen or fourteen in them.

ASoIaF is really well written and plotted and everything, but they're not books I've re-read. If I have a choice, I prefer satisfying endings and unproblematic sex.

That sounds like a massive double-entendre. Then again, a lot of this thread does.
 

Russ

Istar
I have not written any explicit sex scenes in my fantasy nor do I think I will as they arn't really needed to tell the story I am trying to tell.

I certainly don't mind reading them. I love sensuallity well written, like Anne Rice writes for example, or her son Chris for that matter.

I don't read for the sex in particular, but I can imagine in some plots, especially coming of age stories, ignoring the sex or budding sexuality would seem odd. I certainly would not suggest that anyone avoid writing it.

And for my 2 cents I thought that GRRM scene everyone is talking about was beautifully written and not forced at all.
 

Reilith

Sage
I don't read for the sex in particular, but I can imagine in some plots, especially coming of age stories, ignoring the sex or budding sexuality would seem odd. I certainly would not suggest that anyone avoid writing it

Those were my thoughts exactly. I will just have to take heed how to write it.
 
I like my fantasy to have compelling and complicated characters, not just interesting plots and settings. In that regard, sex and sexuality are often important aspects and events in people's lives. If it makes sense character-development wise, I think it's important for sex to be explored in a work.

Depending on the rest of the tone of the story depends on how explicit the sex should be. I see a lot of ultra violent books that tiptoe around sex like it's a sleeping beast. For example, I love Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Chronicles. The best world building I've ever read. But they are excessively violent. I'm not squeamish, so this doesn't turn me off, but the juxtaposition between this adult level of violence and action with the prudish hints that the womanizing character, Adolin, (among others) has sex is very odd. Especially considering how important these female "conquests" are to that character's development.

Anyway, that digression might not be helpful, Reilith. For your gay coming of age story, I think the best way to look at if explicit sex is appropriate is to decide if there are avenues for your mc to explore his sexuality without having sex with another male, and what his reaction to sex will look like. I think if you are going for a realistic portrayal, many of us gay people growing up in less than accepting areas, only truly realized we were gay when we had our first sexual experience(s) - whether with the same sex or not.

Hope that helps. Good luck!
 

Reilith

Sage
Anyway, that digression might not be helpful, Reilith. For your gay coming of age story, I think the best way to look at if explicit sex is appropriate is to decide if there are avenues for your mc to explore his sexuality without having sex with another male, and what his reaction to sex will look like. I think if you are going for a realistic portrayal, many of us gay people growing up in less than accepting areas, only truly realized we were gay when we had our first sexual experience(s) - whether with the same sex or not.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

It does. As a bisexual person, who was declared as gay for four years prior to discovering my own bisexuality I know how it works, as my first encounters were with women only. I am writing from the POV of a young gay male (my favourite type of character btw.) so I do think it is relevant to the plot as it will take a chunk of the novel, exploring and explaining his growth - from a tight family who never even considered the possibility and a father who tried to keep him in a bubble protected from things he didn't see fit, to liberation from those constrictions in the less conservative capital and a variety of characters who vary in sexuality. I clearly want to depict his train of thought as he finds out about those things which were so far away from him and seemed so unreal, to discovering his own gayness. So yeah, I believe that the sexual aspect of relationship he is going to have is important to show his progress.
 
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SD Stevens

Scribe
Those scenes always made me uncomfortable because she was thirteen or fourteen in them.

Then you wouldn't like historical novels then because they have the same. It was the done thing 'back then'. Which is the main reason for the fantasy world I created. My rules means no under age sex!!

I have a good bit of sex in mine but it wont all get into the finished book. It goes in to satisfy me. I write everything and then cut out what's not necessary to the story. (A tip someone gave me that I'm not sure I should do but can stop doing it now).
 

Panda

Troubadour
As a reader, I don't care one way or the other if a book has explicit sex scenes, as long as the scenes are well-written. As a writer, I'm way too self-conscious to write a sex scene. (Which is actually kind of sad, when you consider that I'm an amateur writer and I've never shown my writing to another person anyway.)

Sure, just write Fifty Shades of Middle-Earth!

Fifty Shades of Gandalf the Gray. :D
 
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