Sexually explicit in fantasy - yay or nay?

[Devor]

Great example. In this case it certainly served a story purpose to actually show the act, Drogo continuing the domination of a submissive Daenerys...the baseline of her character arc and transformation to a powerful leader.

Not to be a prude, but I actually hated this scene and found it offensive. Oh, so she can only transform as a woman through sex? That's what that scene had me thinking, that she wouldn't have otherwise been a great and powerful leader if Drogo hadn't asserted sexual dominance over her.

I think both of you maybe missed the point of those scenes. It's not about Dani submitting to an abusive Drogo. It's about her accepting even this aspect of her role as queen.

Yes, that acceptance is a tremendously important part of her development as a character. It's also an important distinction to make because it's what helps her to rise above her helplessness and the perception that she is a victim.

She is Queen, and she is willing to take ownership of everything that means.

 

[Reilith]

Fifty Shades of Gandalf the Gray.

Just search youtube for Fifty Shades of Santa. You'll get the gist of it.

 

[Nimue]

As a reader, I don't care one way or the other if a book has explicit sex scenes, as long as the scenes are well-written. As a writer, I'm way too self-conscious to write a sex scene. (Which is actually kind of sad, when you consider that I'm an amateur writer and I've never shown my writing to another person anyway.)



Fifty Shades of Gandalf the Gray.

Oh god oh god the images

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I think both of you maybe missed the point of those scenes. It's not about Dani submitting to an abusive Drogo.

I never said that's what it was about.

It's about her accepting even this aspect of her role as queen. Yes, that acceptance is a tremendously important part of her development as a character. It's also an important distinction to make because it's what helps her to rise above her helplessness and the perception that she is a victim. She is Queen, and she is willing to take ownership of everything that means.

Totally agree.

 

[Panda]

There are actually two completely unrelated "50 Shades of Santa" videos on Youtube. I'm not sure what that says about the human race.

Oh god oh god the images

I actually stole that joke from Stephen Colbert, who used it while interviewing Ian McKellen. Who replied that with him, it would be 50 Shades of Gandalf the Gay.

 

[Tom]

I guess you don't like a Song of Ice and Fire much? One great scene connecting Daenerys and Carl Drogo was described through sex. It can color a relationship in a unique way. Not that I enjoy or care if there is sex (I am neutral on the matter), just saying, why throw out a tool?

When it is necessary for plot or character development, or maybe a deeper meaning (someone gets pregnant and you want to show the conception for some reason), there is no reason to cut it just because it is "sex."

Or, of course if you are writing YA novels (but then you can skip this thread I guess because the reason you don't include sex is obvious)

If you are an adult yourself and have sex, there is no logical reason it should "turn you off" in a story that strides for realism and immesion. If you are an adult who does not have sex, and strays away from it because sex turns you off in real life, than sure, I understand that. It's just part of life.

I am not saying have a porn scene or be graphic, but there is no reason you can't have a few lines someplace about it if it is written in a classy and relevant manner.

My completed WIP is 60 chapters, I have 2-3 brief sex scenes I found to be relevant. For the sake of variety, I cannot think of a reason to cut them, nor is there a need to aside from being scared they will turn people off (but the second best selling fantasy series of all time has plenty, so, I'm pretty comfortable with the few short scenes I have).

I'm okay with sex if it's relevant to plot or character development, which is why I am actually okay with the sex in the Game of Thrones series, but not with a lot of the sex in the TV show. In the books, it's almost always relevant, while in the show, I feel a lot of it is gratuitous.

Yes, I do write mostly YA fiction, but I'm starting to branch out into adult fiction too, and several of my more adult stories have featured sexual content, though I have never written a full-on sex scene. I prefer the subtle route. Most of it is implied through dialogue and action.

Sex turns me off in real life, as I am asexual. Some asexuals are indifferent to the idea of sex, having neither negative nor positive reactions to it, but I just do not like sex.

 

[Fyle]

Sex turns me off in real life, as I am asexual. Some asexuals are indifferent to the idea of sex, having neither negative nor positive reactions to it, but I just do not like sex.

That is very interesting. Thank you for the honesty.

 

[joshwolf]

I think that it completely depends on the tone of the work itself and what beats you're trying to hit as your plot unfolds. Would I write about my characters going to the bathroom? If it fit the tone and something important needed to happen during that, you know, business, then yeah, I would. (Fortunately it hasn't happened yet.)

I've only written one sex scene, but the MCs were in a romantic relationship, I was working for a very dreamlike, visceral feel whenever they were together, and it seemed like something that needed to happen onstage near the end of the second act of the novel. The scene was very difficult to write and the whole thing's still a WIP but I'm glad I tried it. While there's plenty of gratuitous sex masquerading as lit, I think our sexuality can sometimes be responsibly and engagingly explored in fantasy lit. Haruki Murakami does a great job.

 

[Giya Kusezu]

No. I view sex as a sacred, special thing. I neither read nor write about it. Most sex-related things I have run across in books feel like cheap filler material used to hook the reader, and the scarce books that are more respectful about it just made me uncomfortable, anyway.

 

[CupofJoe]

This is what I think of as a good "sex" scene... Very Small Favor - The Big Sleep (1946)

 

[ascanius]

IMHO I think way too many sex scenes are too much sex and enough focus on emotional impacts on the character, this is assuming the scene is relevent to the plot. Sex scenes are frankly boring, I know the mechanics of how it works and if I wanted to read a manual I would read something to further my intelligence. Sex scenes shouldn't be about sex, the sex should be like the setting, important but not point.

I think the scene with Dani and Drogo was well done with much more going on than just sex. To me I always took that scene as the point where she takes crontrol of her life from her brother.

I havn't gotten to the sex scenes in my WIP. I have them planned out and hopefull I will be able to put my money where my mouth is.

 

[bookwyvern2]

No. I don't think the story calls for it. Some romance between 2 characters is okay, but no Harlequin romance.

 

[Fyle]

No. I view sex as a sacred, special thing. I neither read nor write about it. Most sex-related things I have run across in books feel like cheap filler material used to hook the reader, and the scarce books that are more respectful about it just made me uncomfortable, anyway.

Calling sex cheap filler is borderline ridiculous and completely opinionated. It shows a stronger connection between two characters and can be used as a tool to build who they are. If it is kept short and to the point, it is in no way shape or form "filler." I would say it's length is more relevant whether it is explicit or not, we can all agree nobodu wants to read 5-10 pages of explicit sex in fantasy... but kept as a few lines should not interrupt anything if it is plot relevant.

Why is a natural part of life "sacred"? I would like an explanation with as little opinion as possible so we can all understand this point of view.

In the end, it all comes down to how real you want your story to seem, and what realism does is create immersion... which is the goal for all writers across the board of every genre, nothing is more important.

 

[X Equestris]

Calling sex cheap filler is borderline ridiculous and completely opinionated. It shows a stronger connection between two characters and can be used as a tool to build who they are. If it is kept short and to the point, it is in no way shape or form "filler." I would say it's length is more relevant whether it is explicit or not, we can all agree nobodu wants to read 5-10 pages of explicit sex in fantasy... but kept as a few lines should not interrupt anything if it is plot relevant.

Why is a natural part of life "sacred"? I would like an explanation with as little opinion as possible so we can all understand this point of view.

In the end, it all comes down to how real you want your story to seem, and what realism does is create immersion... which is the goal for all writers across the board of every genre, nothing is more important.

Let's be honest here: the vast majority of sexual content I have run across in various forms of media IS filler (often poorly done filler), meant to draw in the lowest common denominator. Rare is the sex scene that is well done and has any meaning in the work.

 

[Fyle]

Let's be honest here: the vast majority of sexual content I have run across in various forms of media IS filler (often poorly done filler), meant to draw in the lowest common denominator. Rare is the sex scene that is well done and has any meaning in the work.

The question is not whether it is well done or not. I think we have to assume it is written to a good enough standard to "work."

I am about keeping an open mind and not automatically blocking anything from your writting just because it is "fill in the blank," subject wise (technical writting is a different beast).

I am about keeping everything as an option and not saying "no way" just on the thought of it or your personal beliefs outside writing. How you think about sex, is outside influenced and a lot about personal experience and upbrining. To be honest, the less you are exposed to it, the more mysterious and alien it seems. Its just a normal part of life and should be handled with care because it is hard to make relevant, but it might be....

 

[X Equestris]

The question is not whether it is well done or not. I think we have to assume it is written to a good enough standard to "work."

I am about keeping an open mind and not automatically blocking anything from your writting just because it is "fill in the blank," subject wise (technical writting is a different beast).

I am about keeping everything as an option and not saying "no way" just on the thought of it or your personal beliefs outside writing. How you think about sex, is outside influenced and a lot about personal experience and upbrining. To be honest, the less you are exposed to it, the more mysterious and alien it seems. Its just a normal part of life and should be handled with care because it is hard to make relevant, but it might be....

Saying something is good enough to work sort of sidesteps the issue. If something isn't well done, if it doesn't add to the work, then it shouldn't be there. Most of the sex scenes I see could be cut out and the work would be the same quality or better.

 

[Fyle]

Saying something is good enough to work sort of sidesteps the issue. If something isn't well done, if it doesn't add to the work, then it shouldn't be there. Most of the sex scenes I see could be cut out and the work would be the same quality or better.

I beg to differ. The issue is about inclusion or not and why. Not about how well it is written, I am just trying to agree on a certain standard that the scene is not distasteful due to vulgur language is all. I could have worded it better to be fair to you, sure.


Refer to the yay or nay in the OP's title for the thread for clarity on the subject.

 

[Reilith]

But if they do add, then why should they not be included? Because of beliefs set in the writers mind which prohibit it for whatever reason, or because sex is something that should not be portayed? Is it dirty or holy or something third? I don't say it must be included by any price, but I am saying that as long as it is relevant to the plot and growth of the characters, why shouldn't it be? Not plain po*n of course, but meaningful sexual interaction between two people.

 

[Reilith]

Fyle, you ninja.

 

[X Equestris]

I beg to differ. The issue is about inclusion or not and why. Not about how well it is written.

Refer to the yay or nay in the OP's title for the thread.

Whether explicit sex should be included or not depends on the quality of said scene. If it adds nothing or decreases the quality, then it should not be in. If it is well written, then it should be in. Same as any other sort of scene. Simple.