>there will never be a one size fits all. But there are some that come closer to the bill than others.
pmmg, this was precisely my point. When we speak of "the bill" we are in fact saying there is an ideal. A single ideal. That's what I have heard voiced elsewhere and have seen somewhat on this thread--that there is such a thing as "the" female power fantasy, and discussions of specific works are all about how close or far that work hit from the mark.
I submit this does an injustice to us all. I prefer the notion--a foolish one, perhaps, but I cling to it--that human beings are marvelously diverse, that despite cultural commonalities we somehow manage each to be unique, even if the differences can be hard to spot. More to the point, when all or most of are spoken of as if we were identical, we miss the unique, and it's the unique and the unusual that I most value.
I am quite sure I don't have any male power fantasies. The very notion seems silly to me--and only for me, I hasten to add. Someone mentioned Conan, but I've always viewed Conan as an archetypical critic of civilization, and specifically of the decadence of the civilized. This is how Howard wrote him, of course, but it's also how I read him (I was introduced via the great comic run in the 1970s, all kudos to Roy Thomas). I'd go so far as to say that Conan as a male power fantasy is in fact someone else's fantasy about what constitutes male fantasy. A stereotype, in other words.
It's dreadfully easy to fall into those types. I have done it myself, many times, going all the way back to the Marlboro Man serving as a stereotype for what I imagined a certain type of male to be. It let me be dismissive and superior. It turns out there are lots of different kinds of cowboys, and lots of different kinds of people who admire them. So, I'm not putting anyone down here or, if I am, I'm right there with you.
Which makes me wonder: what is the difference between a [gender] power fantasy (I note in passing that no one is talking about a power fantasy for anyone on the LBGTQ rainbow) and a [gender] ideal. Can't there be ideals to fantasize about other than power?
pmmg, this was precisely my point. When we speak of "the bill" we are in fact saying there is an ideal. A single ideal. That's what I have heard voiced elsewhere and have seen somewhat on this thread--that there is such a thing as "the" female power fantasy, and discussions of specific works are all about how close or far that work hit from the mark.
I submit this does an injustice to us all. I prefer the notion--a foolish one, perhaps, but I cling to it--that human beings are marvelously diverse, that despite cultural commonalities we somehow manage each to be unique, even if the differences can be hard to spot. More to the point, when all or most of are spoken of as if we were identical, we miss the unique, and it's the unique and the unusual that I most value.
I am quite sure I don't have any male power fantasies. The very notion seems silly to me--and only for me, I hasten to add. Someone mentioned Conan, but I've always viewed Conan as an archetypical critic of civilization, and specifically of the decadence of the civilized. This is how Howard wrote him, of course, but it's also how I read him (I was introduced via the great comic run in the 1970s, all kudos to Roy Thomas). I'd go so far as to say that Conan as a male power fantasy is in fact someone else's fantasy about what constitutes male fantasy. A stereotype, in other words.
It's dreadfully easy to fall into those types. I have done it myself, many times, going all the way back to the Marlboro Man serving as a stereotype for what I imagined a certain type of male to be. It let me be dismissive and superior. It turns out there are lots of different kinds of cowboys, and lots of different kinds of people who admire them. So, I'm not putting anyone down here or, if I am, I'm right there with you.
Which makes me wonder: what is the difference between a [gender] power fantasy (I note in passing that no one is talking about a power fantasy for anyone on the LBGTQ rainbow) and a [gender] ideal. Can't there be ideals to fantasize about other than power?