Thought this was amusing

[Incanus]

Heck, apparently even here young earth creationists need protection from people talking about how evolution works.

For the most part, I’ve tried to be diplomatic on this site, and I’ve mostly not gotten involved in the more ‘heated’ discussions. In general, I think it a good idea to not get into religion or politics here–mainly because I’d like to stay on topic: the craft of writing. That’s what I’m here for.

That said, my respect for this site has dropped a notch because of this. Not that anyone might care one way or the other. This strikes me as closer to being censorship than as avoiding controversy, though I’m perfectly willing to alter my view if presented with a sound argument.

 

[Penpilot]

It would be pretty creepy if you did go up to a random person and say that.

This, like many things, depends on context. Do this during a party and you may get a smile in return, or do this during a funeral and get tossed out on your ear. OR do this to someone who is looking to be offended and get accused of being a misogynist.

But anyways, if some person did take your comment to mean something like that, you defend your comment by explaining that it didn't. That's the thing, people, you can defend what you say. It's not like if someone challenges you on something, you have to accept it. If you disagree, then explain why. Tell them why you didn't think your comment meant what they thought it meant. Have an exchange, come to an understanding, communicate. It's not hard.

Difficult to explain yourself when you get banned, no?

That phrase is only really applicable to situations with regards to two differing opinions being expressed. Any opinion can be expressed. Any opinion can be criticised. Any words can be said. Any words can be criticised. Any criticism can be criticised. If someone wants to make a racist comment, no one's stopping them. No one can stop them. Once that person says tat comment, people will probably tell them to shut the f*ck up. AT which point, the person who made the comment should defend their comment, defend their opinion and justify it. No one can ever be stopped from saying anything, only criticised for what they have said.

Again, hard to do when following the phrase STFU they drop the ban hammer.

 

[Miskatonic]

As far as being able to retort, it was the fastest I've ever seen a post removed. Probably took less than a minute and I had a notice pop up.

Like I said, it was in regards to a gamescom event in Germany where they had an official expansion release event, so any thread dealing with is probably going to be watched closely. I've posted more offensive things on there that never got me in any trouble.

I honestly don't care all that much if someone got upset about it, as it was not done maliciously and it was extremely tame. If I had said something along the lines of "They were probably too busy daydreaming about gassing Jews and turning them into lampshades", then I would fully expect to be banned. Of course I wouldn't say that because I don't think it is funny or appropriate to post in any situation. There were flamewars going on between players in that thread that I would suspect that 99% of the people didn't care when they saw it.

Like I said there was a thread titled N *GG** (Completely spelled out with no special characters) that had a whole bunch of hate speech written in the post that was up for several hours before it was taken down. There were probably 4 or 5 pages worth of replies to it, a lot of which were people wondering how the thread was still up. So apparently the mods were too busy picking their noses. I would expect stuff like that to be immediately deleted.

I'm not overly concerned with the reactions of hypersensitive people. Some people are offended by everything and they just need to deal with their own issues, because I honestly could give a damn.

All an admin had to do was PM me and tell me not to post stuff like that anymore and I would have begrudgingly agreed to their request. A 24 hour account ban was extreme and unnecessary, especially for someone who has been playing the game for years and has given them hundreds of dollars in subscription fees.

 

[Miskatonic]

For the most part, I’ve tried to be diplomatic on this site, and I’ve mostly not gotten involved in the more ‘heated’ discussions. In general, I think it a good idea to not get into religion or politics here—mainly because I’d like to stay on topic: the craft of writing. That’s what I’m here for.

That said, my respect for this site has dropped a notch because of this. Not that anyone might care one way or the other. This strikes me as closer to being censorship than as avoiding controversy, though I’m perfectly willing to alter my view if presented with a sound argument.

I strongly support the practice of keeping politics and similar subjects out of the creative process as I've only seen it poison things. I see this at pretty much all writing websites. It becomes more about using writing as some sort of tool for social/political crusading (as long as it's the change the self-appointed moral leaders find appropriate) and less about the craft of writing. People are more interested in telling others what they should or shouldn't write about, how they should or shouldn't develop their characters, the types of characters that need to be included, etc.

 

[Incanus]

I strongly support the practice of keeping politics and similar subjects out of the creative process as I've only seen it poison things. I see this at pretty much all writing websites. It becomes more about using writing as some sort of tool for social/political crusading (as long as it's the change the self-appointed moral leaders find appropriate) and less about the craft of writing. People are more interested in telling others what they should or shouldn't write about, how they should or shouldn't develop their characters, the types of characters that need to be included, etc.

Agreed. I'm learning craft and using it to present my personal and unique vision of the world. I'm not learning how to write to display someones else's beliefs/opinions. That said, my stories aren't likely to bludgeon people with social or political philosophies. Entertainment first and foremost, and hopefully a little sense of wonder.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Agreed. I'm learning craft and using it to present my personal and unique vision of the world. I'm not learning how to write to display someones else's beliefs/opinions. That said, my stories aren't likely to bludgeon people with social or political philosophies. Entertainment first and foremost, and hopefully a little sense of wonder.

Sounds like you've got your priorities straight.

Writing's a lot more likely to read authentically if you're honest about your beliefs (even if you're respectfully writing a character whose beliefs differ from yours). Every story has a message, and you have to be able to embrace it and believe in it as the writer; only then is there a chance your story will have any emotional impact on the reader.

 

[Miskatonic]

Sounds like you've got your priorities straight.

Writing's a lot more likely to read authentically if you're honest about your beliefs (even if you're respectfully writing a character whose beliefs differ from yours). Every story has a message, and you have to be able to embrace it and believe in it as the writer; only then is there a chance your story will have any emotional impact on the reader.

I say make me care, make me want to know more about this person's plight, make me care about their welfare and their journey, but do so through solid writing and not thinly veiled political propaganda masquerading as literature.

 

[Trick]

I say make me care, make me want to know more about this person's plight, make me care about their welfare and their journey, but do so through solid writing and not thinly veiled political propaganda masquerading as literature.

Agreed. I gave up on a popular series because, a few books in, the political agenda that was always somewhat present become the main topic and just stopped being interesting. I even agreed with the agenda, but I think that made the soap box style attempts to convince me of it even more irritating. I was like, "Yeah, I agree, totally. So stop telling me already!"

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I say make me care, make me want to know more about this person's plight, make me care about their welfare and their journey, but do so through solid writing and not thinly veiled political propaganda masquerading as literature.

Maybe I took something different from Incanus' post than you did. I didn't take his "personal and unique vision" to mean something necessarily political, based on the rest of his post, which ended on a note of "entertainment first and foremost."

"Thinly veiled political propaganda" is about as dishonest as you can get.

When I say "be honest," I mean for example, if I write a character who follows a Norse goddess and is supposed to be a good, likable person, I'm going to give her what I see as positive traits of a devout religious person. I'm not going to have her perform human sacrifices and stab people in the kneecap for mispronouncing the name of her goddess, for example, because that level of fanaticism doesn't fit in with my perspective of a good, likable religious person. I'm more likely to get my reader to relate to her the way I intend to because I can get behind that image of the character.

There's nothing wrong with giving that same character a crazy religious ritual that involves disemboweling her opponents on an altar. She is a barbarian. But in this case, I wouldn't see her as likable and good, so I wouldn't expect many readers to see her that way. I'd expect readers (not all—it's never all—but likely a significant portion of them) to see her as a psychotic zealot because that would be my perspective.

 

[Miskatonic]

Maybe I took something different from Incanus' post than you did. I didn't take his "personal and unique vision" to mean something necessarily political, based on the rest of his post, which ended on a note of "entertainment first and foremost."

I was talking about stories in general, not specifically what Icanus posted. I probably shouldn't have quoted, just posted my thoughts.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I was talking about stories in general, not specifically what Icanus posted. I probably shouldn't have quoted, just posted my thoughts.

Ah, got it. Thanks for clarifying.

I also felt the need to clarify last night, since I could see how his post and mine could be taken to mean subtly inserting personal opinions. I think we all agree that it kills the fun.

 

[Incanus]

I think we're all basically agreed. I also just wanted to clarify what I meant by "personal and unique vision", which could come off as pretty bombastic. I mean it only in the sense that every individual on the planet is unique, and not that my uniqueness is in any way special or more worthy.

When writing, I think we need not necessarily heap on our personal opinions consciously, deliberately--I think our individuality will make it into the text one way or another, sooner or later, without much effort. Really, how could it not?

 

[Miskatonic]

I think we're all basically agreed. I also just wanted to clarify what I meant by "personal and unique vision", which could come off as pretty bombastic. I mean it only in the sense that every individual on the planet is unique, and not that my uniqueness is in any way special or more worthy.

When writing, I think we need not necessarily heap on our personal opinions consciously, deliberately--I think our individuality will make it into the text one way or another, sooner or later, without much effort. Really, how could it not?

I think it's a balance (surprise, surprise). You show some of your personal viewpoints but then also suppress them to get a better understanding of the characters who have beliefs you aren't familiar with or that merely differ from yours. You also have to make a conscious choice, if for instance you create a villain, that you aren't purposely making them a villain as a way to demonize other ideas. If it fits into the story then so be it, but at least give a fair shake when applicable.

For example; I may portray a type of government I don't agree with, but I can show how they try to convince people that it is beneficial for humanity, while perhaps using certain characters to demonstrate why this may not be so.