Using Songs in a Fantasy World

[SensibleRin]

What is your opinion of the use of songs as an aid in fantasy stories? Do they have a place in a fantasy story?
Obviously we have all come across clumsy rhymes, tiresome lyrics, that seem to have no place in the story.
But when done well, can they add something?
I like to use songs as a kind of mnemonic device that the reader can use to help remember basic details of the world later on.

For example, I have a rather complicated calendar. See this thread: http://mythicscribes.com/forums/world-building/10200-calendars-your-world-3.html Like our "30 days hath November", they have their own songs. My MC starts the novel as a child, so we are exposed to some of the songs used to teach.
Here is a little excerpt from my song about the week:
"Moonsday, month’s first day,
New moon Moonsday
Half-moon Moonsday
Full-Moon Moonsday,

Second day, Sunday
Rising from the west way

Third day, Starsday
Shine down from afarsday

Fourth day Earthday
The land that gave us birth-day

Fifth and last day
Godsday, holy day
Dawning gray,
Candlelit pathways."

Childish, yes, but memorable, and establishing some background details.

What are your thoughts on songs inside novels?

 

[Phietadix]

It really depends. But you should know that Tolkien, the hero of our genre, included many songs in his books. Of the top of my head I can think of six seperate songs from The Fellowship of the Rings, and there's proabably alot more in there. So if you can make them relevant to the story, then go for it. I enjoy a good song or two in a fantasy book.

((Note, I recently just had a discusion about how Tolkien should have given us a tune to sing the songs to, otherwise it drives us mad trying to figure out how they're sung. You might want to keep that in mind.))

 

[Darkfantasy]

I personally don't like it and would rather it not be used, but if the writing is good by someone who knows how to do it correctly, I don't mind.

 

[Asterisk]

What is your opinion of the use of songs as an aid in fantasy stories? Do they have a place in a fantasy story?
Obviously we have all come across clumsy rhymes, tiresome lyrics, that seem to have no place in the story.
But when done well, can they add something?

When they serve a purpose (such as establishing background details, like you mentioned) and are done well, yes! Phietadix mentioned that Tolkien used it very often in his Lord of the Rings trilogy. (I love your song, by the way! I can see the children singing it!) I included a song in my novel too. I think it adds some depth and uniqueness to a fantasy world.

 

[GeekDavid]

I'm ambivalent.

Let me put it this way... I've never put a book down simply because it included a song... but I've also never bought a book simply because it had a song in it.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Generally, if the song is longer than a few short lines I'll skip past it to the next part.

 

[druidofwinter]

When I first read Lord of the Rings and came to a song I would roll my eyes and skim through it. Now, however, I have come to greatly enjoy the songs. I think they are a great way to add cultural depth to your world, though I do not think this is what Tolkien was aiming for. Fantasy is one of the few (if not the only) genre(s) where you would find original songs. Many fantasy series I have read have contained songs, in fact, I have read very few that have not. They almost seem to be part of the genre. Of course you do not have to include any, but if they are there, I will read them. I am planing on including one or two songs of my own in my Dark Lands trilogy.

 

[skip.knox]

I skip over songs and poems. They almost never, Tolkien included, advance the plot. Every once in a while, Tolkien included, they can be fun or even beautiful in themselves, but that's about it. There's a reason why books are told in prose. IMO, such other literary forms are prime candidates for links in today's electronic publishing world. Those interested can go read, but they don't get in the way of the story.

 

[Quillstine]

I think it depends on how far into the world you want to take your readers. Songs, poems etc... are great for a story were you are taking people into the very intricate details of your fantasy world. Judging by the calendar thread your world looks very in depth, so adding folklore songs and music I would think would work well.
I don't mind the odd song or poem, they make a prophecy easier to remember or a spell seem a little cooler! I also think if done well, and agree with the others on the idea that they should be kept fairly short, they can add fantastic cultural depth to a book. The big thing for me is to ensure that all songs from a particular area or race follow some kind of pattern and are not just higgledy piggeldy thrown together and plonked randomly into your chapters. That way when a song is written, the reader can identify it, relate it to the group it comes from.
If all else fails, remember it worked for Dr. Seuss!

 

[SeverinR]

I personally don't like it and would rather it not be used, but if the writing is good by someone who knows how to do it correctly, I don't mind.

I think the second part is key.

It detracts from olde Fantasy to have modern music and lyrics. But if you can make music seem to be of the period you write, then use music.

When I wrote of a bard in training, I didn't have to worry about words very much, because she plays an instrument, primary a Gemshorn, can't sing and play it at the same time.
The MC did sing a nursery rhyme in the book though.

Mercedes Lackey, occasionally had songs in her books. Mostly she wouldn't include the whole song in the story, but placed it in the back of the book as additional material.
I found this site dedicated to ML's music from her books:
Mercedes Lackey- songs - YouTube

 

[Scribble]

The song should be entertaining. Bad songs are painful to listen to, and dreadful to read. Writing a good song is not easy. Writing a bad song is easy, I've written several.

More than that, my opinion is there must be reason in the story for it to be sung, not simply tossed in there as a flourish, and just like prose, every line of the song should either reveal plot or reveal character.

What writers accomplish by putting the songs at the back of the book is handling these songs as extraneous, but interesting, appendixes to the story - and they avoid cluttering the story with unnecessary words. Songs should not get a pass because they are pretty. If I describe a beautiful sunset and it doesn't do a job of revealing character or plot, it's useless, cut it out.

For an example of what I think shows a good use of song in a fantasy story, check out Silverlock by John Myers Myers

http://www.amazon.ca/Silverlock-John-Myers/dp/0441012477

The secondary character in the story is a kind of "everybard", he is Orpheus, Taliesin, etc... rolled into one. In the story, songs are used for many reasons, but they always do a lot of work of their own. There are no free floating songs to skip over. They reveal something of the hearts of the characters, they foreshadow, they tell the story.

As they enter the waters of the Commonwealth, he sings a strange kind of chant, almost a spell:

I invoke the Commonwealth!
I know what was in Orthroerir;
Orthroerir was in it,
In it, it was hoarded,
Hoarded, it was stolen,
Stolen, it was spilled,
Spilled, I caught it,
Caught, it was given away,
Given away, it stays my own,
My own is the Commonwealth.
I invoke it!
The land may not be hidden from its lover.

The main character is clueless, but this song sets the tone, and without showing a lick of magic, it clues the reader in on what kind of place they are entering. They have left the mundane world, and entered the realm of Faerie AND that words have power there. It also shows that the secondary character has secret knowledge, a knowledge he has passion for, that is significant.

There is another point in the story where the bard holds a crowd under geas while they attempt a "doomed to fail" rescue. The couplets are sung, interspersed in the action, layering meaning into the desperation of the characters, and it sets the timing, creates a sense of urgency as the bad guys will be released to kill the good guys when the song ends. That was one of the best scenes in the book, and it was the song that made it awesome.

 

[skip.knox]

Yeah, Silverlock is one of the exceptions. An odd book all the way 'round, but the poetry is essential to the story. Good example, though no less rare for all that.

 

[Bruce McKnight]

I, personally, am not a fan of songs in books. My guess it's a pretty firm divide between people who like them and people who don't. I don't think anyone would hate a book just because it had them, though.

Tolkien and Rothfuss seem to have done ok with songs in their books. I think they wrote good books, even if I didn't care for the songs.

 

[Mythopoet]

Did Rothfuss do any actual song lyrics? It's been a while since I read the two books, but I mostly remember him talking about songs instead of actually having lyrics in the book. I could be wrong.

I think if you include songs or lyrics in your story there should be a good reason for it. They should somehow be important to a character or to the setting. Not just a little bit of trivia. Songs and poems are very important to the world of Middle-earth, demonstrating both its deep and glorious history and how power and magic work in the setting. Songs and tales are very important to the main character in Rothfuss' books. He wouldn't be who he is without music and storytelling.

Also, if you want to include lyrics or poems, you should be good at writing them. Tolkien, though he isn't to everyone's taste, is undoubtedly skilled at writing verse. I can think of few other modern writers who are.

Personally, I have a MC who is a traveling musician and so I will be including some of his songs here and there to lend verisimilitude to his character. I am not good at writing lyrics, but my husband is. He'll be helping me out with those bits. But I'll be making sure that the songs can be easily skipped for those who don't enjoy that sort of thing.