What Will You Stand For?

[Feo Takahari]

As a writer of erotica, I don't think there's any level on which I might realistically be asked to sell out that I haven't already sold out on, but I hold where I can. When I submitted Five Conversations on a Pier After Dark to a magazine that typically publishes straight romance, I asked whether I should specify the originally gender-ambiguous narrator as male, so as to make his romance with a female character "straight." The editor said it would be better to do so, since the magazine couldn't afford any controversy at the time, but handed that obvious censor bait, she completely ignored that I was now giving a positive portrayal of a feminine male.

 

[lawrence]

Some great advice here, esp Steerpike and Caged Maiden.

Nobody wants creative art to be squeezed into current-trend or populist production moulds, and have its shape changed far beyond the artist's intentions. One of the joys of the arts is its diversity.

But any publisher will want to have input, due to their considerable investment, as has been pointed out. I agree that one of the keys is to try to work with a publisher that has a favourable inclination towards your kind of work.

I can think of quite a few book derived movies where I am sure the author must have been really disappointed with the outcome. I guess you have to decide if you are prepared to take the money and run. Very few of us will ever need to deal with that crisis of integrity!

 

[Mindfire]

I can think of quite a few book derived movies where I am sure the author must have been really disappointed with the outcome. I guess you have to decide if you are prepared to take the money and run. Very few of us will ever need to deal with that crisis of integrity!

True. But it can't hurt to plan ahead. I've already decided it's highly unlikely I'll ever give away film rights to my work. For every Lord of the Rings Trilogy you also get an Eragon. Of course the source material for that film was already crap but that's not the point. I'd have to be really, really convinced the books would be done justice before I signed a movie deal. And by convinced, I don't mean won over by the number of zeros on the check. The production company would really have to believe in the project and the directors and writers would have to have genuine vision. The last thing I'd want is for my work to be adapted as a mediocre, soulless cash-in like Percy Jackson Generic Teenage Adventure Movie with Greek Stuff.


However, I'd have much more initial interest in an animated series adaptation. Especially if the geniuses behind Avatar: The Last Airbender were leading the project. As a bonus, they'd probably sympathize with me, since they know firsthand what it's like to have your work turned into a bad adaptation.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Mindfire,

I understand your position but it seems to me your setting up obstacles for yourself. There's enough tribulation to deal with just in publishing, marketing, and gaining a fan base without having to worry about potential problems that we may never face. This feels like a "cart before the horse" situation. Get the book finished first.

Planning ahead is one thing, but lashing out against perceived potential exploitation is just kind of silly. Write the book you want to write and take things a step at a time. Your opinion on many of these issues may change as you evolve as a writer, as you mature as a human being, and as the industry itself changes (no I'm not talking about your religious or social views either, I'm speaking about craft & business).

 

[Mindfire]

Mindfire,

I understand your position but it seems to me your setting up obstacles for yourself. There's enough tribulation to deal with just in publishing, marketing, and gaining a fan base without having to worry about potential problems that we may never face. This feels like a "cart before the horse" situation. Get the book finished first.

Planning ahead is one thing, but lashing out against perceived potential exploitation is just kind of silly. Write the book you want to write and take things a step at a time. Your opinion on many of these issues may change as you evolve as a writer, as you mature as a human being, and as the industry itself changes (no I'm not talking about your religious or social views either, I'm speaking about craft & business).

Are you referring to my objection to whitewashing, or my objection to shoddy adaptations? I can't tell which post you're replying to.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Are you referring to my objection to whitewashing, or my objection to shoddy adaptations? I can't tell which post you're replying to.

Sorry it was unclear. The reply was directed to the post right above the one you're questioning.

I'm not objecting to anything at all. I agree that white-washing is an abhorrent practice & that film adaptions are often substandard productions of a fabulous written wok.

My comment was made in reference to you worrying now about things like having your book made into a shoddy film adaption. Being concerned about issues like these when you still have to write the work is what I mean by "cart before the horse."

 

[Mindfire]

Sorry it was unclear.

I'm not objecting to anything at all. I agree that white-washing is an abhorrent practice & that film adaptions are often substandard productions of a fabulous written wok.

My comment was made in reference to you worrying now about things like having your book made into a shoddy film adaption. Being concerned about issues like these when you still have to write the work is what I mean by "cart before the horse."

Ahh. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I think everyone needs to spend some time writing awesome query letters (after their novels are complete) and seeing where that takes them.

 

[FatCat]

If you're trying to publish a book, I'd imagine you better be ready for some demands to be made on the part of the publisher. They're a business, and when it comes down to it, you're writing may be a business. Instead of talking in terms of 'whitewashing', maybe the simple answer is that these professionals know what sells, and you didn't bring enough to the table. A professional writer, in my mind, knows how to handle requests from an editor and add them into the work without sacrificing your original intent of the work. Yes, in extreme cases this may be untrue, but for the most part if you want to play ball, know the rules!

 

[Mindfire]

If you're trying to publish a book, I'd imagine you better be ready for some demands to be made on the part of the publisher. They're a business, and when it comes down to it, you're writing may be a business. Instead of talking in terms of 'whitewashing', maybe the simple answer is that these professionals know what sells, and you didn't bring enough to the table. A professional writer, in my mind, knows how to handle requests from an editor and add them into the work without sacrificing your original intent of the work. Yes, in extreme cases this may be untrue, but for the most part if you want to play ball, know the rules!

...I'm sorry could you clarify; are you excusing whitewashing?

 

[Steerpike]

...I'm sorry could you clarify; are you excusing whitewashing?

I think that is a pretty strained reading of what he said.

 

[Amanita]

I'm sorry could you clarify; are you excusing whitewashing?

The general idea seems to be that clever people in publishing houses know what sells and what doesn't and as profit-orientated companies, they have no choice but to only accept what sells. (In their opinion). Therefore we foolish new authors being stupidly in love with our "baby" writing have to accept every demand they make or accept that our books will stay in our shelves.
That's how it sounds.
It's sad if it's true, especially when issues such as represantation of different ethnic groups is concerned.

 

[Chime85]

There are changes I would at least consider (painfully at times, I'm sure). But there would be some changes I would simply refuse to make.

:- Different characteristics of my characters. This goes for appearence as well as personality. I cannot fathom changing one character from grumpy to giggle, it's never going to happen.

:- Certain plot elements. Although I'm open to suggestions, there are still some events in the plot that I will refuse to budge on. Not all, by any means. But in my mind, certain events MUST unfold in a particular way.

As for other elements, I am open to negotiation. I'm not too fussed about front covers, but I would much prefer if the cover did not have any characters on it. An illustration of the world I've set or of a particular place, yes, be my guest. I just dont want a visual representation of any of my characters set in stone before anybody has even read the story.

 

[Steerpike]

The general idea seems to be that clever people in publishing houses know what sells and what doesn't and as profit-orientated companies, they have no choice but to only accept what sells. (In their opinion). Therefore we foolish new authors being stupidly in love with our "baby" writing have to accept every demand they make or accept that our books will stay in our shelves.

You can always self-publish. When you use a traditional publisher, you are asking someone else to pay out money in advance, either to you, a cover artist, for the actual book production and distribution, etc. They're going to do that if they think they can make more money in return than they've spent on you. That should be obvious enough. Of course they accept what they think will sell. They wouldn't be in business long if they were spending a bunch of money on things that didn't sell.

 

[Mindfire]

You can always self-publish. When you use a traditional publisher, you are asking someone else to pay out money in advance, either to you, a cover artist, for the actual book production and distribution, etc. They're going to do that if they think they can make more money in return than they've spent on you. That should be obvious enough. Of course they accept what they think will sell. They wouldn't be in business long if they were spending a bunch of money on things that didn't sell.

I think part of the problem is that there's a bait and switch in there.

"We think your book will sell... but only if you turn it into what we want it to be and possibly make it near unrecognizable in the process."

If that's what they wanted, why pick up my book at all? Why invest in my work if its not what they really want? Why not just subsidize a writer to make homogenized cash-ins for them instead of vampirizing original work?

 

[Philip Overby]

I think if people have a tendency to worry if their vision will be corrupted somehow, perhaps they should go with self-publishing or indie publishing as others have suggested. There's less chance of you story being change and you have more freedom over what you can do. Traditional publishing obviously has the chance for more visibility though. I see a future where more and more writers do both. As many actors say, "Do one for yourself, and one for the money."

I think as writers it's good to be flexible though. Heavily consider any opportunities you're given, regardless if they seem to jeopardize your original vision. I wouldn't just say "no" because someone is suggesting a change. Just think it over, is all I'm saying.

 

[Steerpike]

I think part of the problem is that there's a bait and switch in there.

"We think your book will sell... but only if you turn it into what we want it to be and possibly make it near unrecognizable in the process."

If that's what they wanted, why pick up my book at all? Why invest in my work if its not what they really want? Why not just subsidize a writer to make homogenized cash-ins for them instead of vampirizing original work?

That's not a bait and switch. Much of this is generally done before they pick up your work, during the contract negotiation process. It's not even close to a bait and switch, in fact. The point people are making is that they're not going to invest in your work if they don't want it.

Also, you have to keep in mind that all companies operate within the ordinary course of conduct in their industry (one reason an agent can be so important if you don't know the industry). If the common practice is to go through the process of making things more commercially-successful, then the company isn't suddenly in the wrong because you, as the author, weren't familiar with the industry when you got involved and didn't realize that's what they were going to do.

As people have said, if retaining a high level of control is really that important to you, self-publish or go with a niche publisher. if you go with the giants, you have to understand they're looking for mainstream, commercial work that will have mass appeal.

 

[Mindfire]

That's not a bait and switch. Much of this is generally done before they pick up your work, during the contract negotiation process. It's not even close to a bait and switch, in fact. The point people are making is that they're not going to invest in your work if they don't want it.

Also, you have to keep in mind that all companies operate within the ordinary course of conduct in their industry (one reason an agent can be so important if you don't know the industry). If the common practice is to go through the process of making things more commercially-successful, then the company isn't suddenly in the wrong because you, as the author, weren't familiar with the industry when you got involved and didn't realize that's what they were going to do.

As people have said, if retaining a high level of control is really that important to you, self-publish or go with a niche publisher. if you go with the giants, you have to understand they're looking for mainstream, commercial work that will have mass appeal.

I get what you're saying. I guess what I'm really asking is: why would they pick it up anyway if they didn't think it would sell as it is? Seems a tad deceptive.

Eg:
"We said we wanted your epic fantasy work, but what we really want is a (insert popular YA here) knockoff. Can you do that?"

An extreme example, yes. But it makes the point.

 

[Steerpike]

I get what you're saying. I guess what I'm really asking is: why would they pick it up anyway if they didn't think it would sell as it is? Seems a tad deceptive.

It's only deceptive if they are representing something else to you (and if you don't know how the industry works). They "pick up a work" when you and them both sign a contract saying that they are going to publish it. Read it. How things will work is going to be in that contract. It's not deceptive; they're not going to say one thing in the agreement to acquire the work and then spring all of this on you after you've signed on the dotted line.

 

[Mindfire]

It's only deceptive if they are representing something else to you (and if you don't know how the industry works). They "pick up a work" when you and them both sign a contract saying that they are going to publish it. Read it. How things will work is going to be in that contract. It's not deceptive; they're not going to say one thing in the agreement to acquire the work and then spring all of this on you after you've signed on the dotted line.

Ahhh, ok I get it now.