Writing characters that are awkward about sex (or romance in general)

[A. E. Lowan]

Exactly! And the better a person gets at writing the better they are at conveying it. Which when done right creates scenes and stories and moments people remember. Anyone can throw up smut, smut's a dime ten dozen, but a real writer knows how to write.

When done wrong people remember, too.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Here's a missive front the other side of the belt. In our third book two characters finally are able to come together emotionally. I figured physically, too, and I wrote that chapter. It was porny. Oh, so porny. But one of the guys is a bit of a porny guy.

And my wife and front-line editor read it and said, no. Not to the sex, but that I'd left the emotional weight of the scene outside the tent. I'm autistic. It happens sometimes. So, she rewrote it, and it's beautiful and emotional and there is sex but we pull the curtain. I normally wouldn't, but they'd worked through what they needed to, and there wasn't much more story to add.

And now I've got a chapter that's going to become newsletter bait someday.

 

[Josh2Write]

When done wrong people remember, too.

For all the wrong reasons. There's more than enough smut in the world. And writing it is just an admission a writer has nothing left and has to rely on lust to move what's left of the story forward. The more smut the less of a true writer.

 

[Josh2Write]

Here's a missive front the other side of the belt. In our third book two characters finally are able to come together emotionally. I figured physically, too, and I wrote that chapter. It was porny. Oh, so porny. But one of the guys is a bit of a porny guy.

And my wife and front-line editor read it and said, no. Not to the sex, but that I'd left the emotional weight of the scene outside the tent. I'm autistic. It happens sometimes. So, she rewrote it, and it's beautiful and emotional and there is sex but we pull the curtain. I normally wouldn't, but they'd worked through what they needed to, and there wasn't much more story to add.

And now I've got a chapter that's going to become newsletter bait someday.

See, the less smut the better.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

See, the less smut the better.

No. That denies the strongest needs that have carried all species forward. Lust. Birth. Death. All of it drives our stories forward, this relentless need to hand our genes down to the next generation, through the generations, in search of immortality. Lust is what makes us human, makes us mammal, makes us animal. And if, somehow, you've managed to cut that part of you away, I pity you. That can't feel good.

 

[Josh2Write]

No. That denies the strongest needs that have carried all species forward. Lust. Birth. Death. All of it drives our stories forward, this relentless need to hand our genes down to the next generation, through the generations, in search of immortality. Lust is what makes us human, makes us mammal, makes us animal. And if, somehow, you've managed to cut that part of you away, I pity you. That can't feel good.

Love and lust are too very different things. Lust is where all the pain and envy and sorrow comes from. Lust leaves you empty. Lust is rooted in darkness. Pity yourself for only seeing the dirty parts of life.

 

[Finchbearer]

Lust in of itself is an intense desire for something. It’s not exclusive to sex. When lust is in relation to desire for sex, I assume you’re thinking of lusting after someone you can’t have. Lust for someone you’re totally going to have sex with, such as a partner, is a totally healthy physiological reaction.

 

[Josh2Write]

Lust in of itself is an intense desire for something. It’s not exclusive to sex. When lust is in relation to desire for sex, I assume you’re thinking of lusting after someone you can’t have. Lust for someone you’re totally going to have sex with, such as a partner, is a totally healthy physiological reaction.

No, that's desire and passion. Lust is the dirty dark parts of society.
Lust is adultery.
Lust is "love em and leave em"
Lust is heartless and self-serving.
Lust has no love, it only thinks of satisfaction, moment to moment, who cares who it hurts.
Lust is why everyone is afraid to risk love.
Lust makes sex feel dirty.

Desire and passion drives us.
It makes us want to be the best version of ourselves so the other person knows how much we want to be near them.
Sex is just a benefit if you have love.

 

[Finchbearer]

Human beings are sexual - there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with that. Sex can exist without emotion and it be part of normal human expression. Lust can coexist with love too.

 

[Josh2Write]

Human beings are sexual - there’s nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with that. Sex can exist without emotion and it be part of normal human expression. Lust can coexist with love too.

Lust is why everyone is miserable. I will never accept lust as a partner to love, no matter what anyone says. The same with smut. They serve no moral purpose.

 

[Finchbearer]

That’s a very shame driven point of view. I’m not saying lust is always normal or healthy, but there is certainly a normality to it, otherwise humans wouldn’t feel it or experience it. There’s a saying that goes something like, Western society is driven by guilt, Eastern society is driven by shame. There’s always a moral pressure coming from something bigger than ourselves from a societal point of view. When I’m writing characters and their motivations, I’m not using an ideological moral compass. I prefer to explore human psychology in a way that feels as realistic as possible. Real human emotion is complex and worth writing about, especially the messy parts. What happens when you create pressure? The mind can bend sideways. Writing without the judgement of that is far more interesting than creating a PG-13 version of what I think life should look like. But then again, it depends on the goal obviously. But I just know I could never write about something that doesn’t feel real to humanity.

 

[Josh2Write]

That’s a very shame driven point of view. I’m not saying lust is always normal or healthy, but there is certainly a normality to it, otherwise humans wouldn’t feel it or experience it. There’s a saying that goes something like, Western society is driven by guilt, Eastern society is driven by shame. There’s always a moral pressure coming from something bigger than ourselves from a societal point of view. When I’m writing characters and their motivations, I’m not using an ideological moral compass. I prefer to explore human psychology in a way that feels as realistic as possible. Real human emotion is complex and worth writing about, especially the messy parts. What happens when you create pressure? The mind can bend sideways. Writing without the judgement of that is far more interesting than creating a PG-13 version of what I think life should look like. But then again, it depends on the goal obviously. But I just know I could never write about something that doesn’t feel real to humanity.

That’s a very shame driven point of view. I’m not saying lust is always normal or healthy, but there is certainly a normality to it, otherwise humans wouldn’t feel it or experience it. There’s a saying that goes something like, Western society is driven by guilt, Eastern society is driven by shame. There’s always a moral pressure coming from something bigger than ourselves from a societal point of view. When I’m writing characters and their motivations, I’m not using an ideological moral compass. I prefer to explore human psychology in a way that feels as realistic as possible. Real human emotion is complex and worth writing about, especially the messy parts. What happens when you create pressure? The mind can bend sideways. Writing without the judgement of that is far more interesting than creating a PG-13 version of what I think life should look like. But then again, it depends on the goal obviously. But I just know I could never write about something that doesn’t feel real to humanity.

Avoiding lust is not shame. That would mean I did the horrible things I said lust is responsible for, the things you put a laughing face for. I have done none of these things, so I feel no shame for calling them out for what they really are. Simplified, lust is evil.
And I have no place in my writing, or my life, for the distortion of love.
Writing about it makes the world worse.
And nothing will ever change my mind.

 

[Finchbearer]

I wasn’t talking in relation to myself. I was talking about writing sex, and the wider implications of writing something that is real to humanity. It’s your choice what you write about. I’m not interested in reading fiction that is overly moralistic. It’s boring. In terms of avoiding feelings, to my mind, avoidance is another way of articulating denial.

 

[Josh2Write]

I wasn’t talking in relation to myself. I was talking about writing sex, and the wider implications of writing something that is real to humanity. It’s your choice what you write about. I’m not interested in reading fiction that is overly moralistic. It’s boring. In terms of avoiding feelings, to my mind, avoidance is another way of articulating denial.

What you write about is literally you, a direct part of you, your inner feelings, your true thoughts, your intentions.
And what your readers absorb they emulate, because it's teaching them to go in whatever direction you wrote about.
Everything we write has consequences.

 

[Finchbearer]

It’s your choice on how you view the world Josh, I’m not here to say you’re wrong for feeling the way you feel. However, what you’re implying with that statement is that what authors write about directly reflects their own moral compass. That is absolutely not true. Given we’re on a fantasy SF writing forum, a lot of us will have written characters who kill, steal, lie, have casual sex, and do other morally complex things. That’s not saying that we, as writers of that material are going to go out and become raving murderers or do any of the things we have our characters do. We speculate that if our characters are put into X situation then Y would be the outcome based on their characterisation. That’s creative speculation, not a reflection on the writers personal morality.

I think we do put parts of ourselves on the page in terms of how it comes from us, but not as direct moral implication.

 

[Josh2Write]

It’s your choice on how you view the world Josh, I’m not here to say you’re wrong for feeling the way you feel. However, what you’re implying with that statement is that what authors write about directly reflects their own moral compass. That is absolutely not true. Given we’re on a fantasy SF writing forum, a lot of us will have written characters who kill, steal, lie, have casual sex, and do other morally complex things. That’s not saying that we, as writers of that material are going to go out and become raving murderers or do any of the things we have our characters do. We speculate that if our characters are put into X situation then Y would be the outcome based on their characterisation. That’s creative speculation, not a reflection on the writers personal morality.

I think we do put parts of ourselves on the page in terms of how it comes from us, but not as direct moral implication.

Why do think so many writers feel empty and/or heavy after writing about these things. They added more bad to the world and they can feel it. The only books that matter are the ones that confront these issues in a moral way.
Write what you want, but it takes a toll.

 

[Finchbearer]

There’s literally no seminal work that I can think of that doesn’t deal with morally complex subject matter.

 

[Finchbearer]

The only books that matter are the ones that confront these issues in a moral way.

This is so meta Josh I can’t take it.

 

[Josh2Write]

There’s literally no seminal work that I can think of that doesn’t deal with morally complex subject matter.

Outside of lust and and smut and porn, there are plenty. People just refuse to separate them.

 

[Josh2Write]

This is so meta Josh I can’t take it.

The heck is meta?