Writing Characters the Reader Cares About….

[FifthView]

Heliotrope,

I don't disagree with your general premise that establishing relatable characters is a good idea, but only with the implication that it can and ought to be done within the first few paragraphs—in a particular way. Also, I suppose, with the idea that the most important thing to establish about a character, in the first few paragraphs, is likeability—rather than, say, interestingness.

But my disagreement may also be related to a difference in outlook, or habits of interpretation, about certain types of passages. I mean for instance even with Nightcrawler, my experience of the first few scenes was different than yours, and this may not mean either of us is wrong but only that we see different things or see the same things differently.

 

[BWFoster78]

Sometimes I get the vibe a little on this site that we are all trying to be competitive or something? I don't know. I respect you guys and your thoughts and your opinions and I really value your input. I think you are both incredibly talented and knowledgable, so why can't we just chat about different ideas? Why can't we say to each other "hey, that is interesting"… sometimes instead of having to have an argument about how 'there is no right or wrong way to do it?'

Im not a very compensative person. I value collaboration and discussion. I just like working with people and talking with people (you guy fine guys). I don't claim to know everything (or anything) but I like to learn…

I have to disagree with this characterization that ... Just kidding. I know I should have resisted, but I just couldn't.

I just don't see what the point is in arguing. Why do we have to argue everything all the time?

I think that the fundamental nature of internet forums is that discussions are spawned by disagreement. If you post something and everyone agrees with you, the response is crickets.

 

[Heliotrope]

I apologize for my last post. My daughter is sick and crying like crazy and I was cranky!

Fifth view, yes, I agree with you, but Nightcrawler was exactly the type of discussion I was hoping we could have!

That was perfect for a new writer (me) to really delve into what sorts of characteristics make a character 'interesting' or 'admirable' even if they are sketchy! That was great! That was the type of stuff I was hoping for! Lets look at a variety of characters in opening scenes and see what makes us so 'attracted to them' either good or bad, so that we want to follow them…

I guess I was disappointed with the post because it turned into 'here are the fundamental flaws with that theory, and there can be lots of types of openers…" which was too bad because I don't care so much about the 'rule', as all rules can be broken and of course there are many different ways of starting a story! Of course!

But as a new writer I need to get into the nitty gritty. I need to examine real cases of real characters and see what the author did to make them attractive/or not attractive. I think it is helpful to have those discussions and really get into it…? Would you disagree?

Then, when I'm working on my characters I can look back and go "oh right, at the beginning of Mockingjay there was just a quick little line in about her sister that was really helpful in establishing character right away…"

That is all.

Plus my daughter was having a meltdown.

Sorry about that.

 

[Russ]

I don't turn to film much at all for inspiration, I consider the form very different from writing.

But in the spirit of co-operation I reach into my briefcase and pull out a couple novels I have been reading in my downtime to see what they open like:

(after the prologue) -

The bullet tore into Cotton Malone's shoulder.

He fought to control the pain and focused on the plaza. People rushed in all directions. Horns blared. Tires squealed. Marines at the nearby American embassy reacted to the chaos, but there were too far away to help.

Straight into the action. Now this author has a bit of an advantage because Cotton is a very well established series character by this point.

He lay sprawled upon the concrete pavement of the alley in the darkening stain of his own blood, a man I had never seen before, a man with the face of an Apache warrior, struck down from behind and stabbed repeatedly in the back as he lay there.

A short stand alone novel from 1966 by an American master. Perhaps it would not fit with Mr. Maas' vision for the 21st century. But it does tell us that the main character is the kind of person who has an interest in the dead guy and pays some attention to detail.

And on the other issue...thread drift happens.

 

[Heliotrope]

Thanks Russ!

Great example if action opening! So at what point in the scene does the mc become 'human' or at least make you go "oh, this is a cool character' not just 'this is a cool scene' and how does the author show it?

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

I think the time you build the humanity is throughout the exciting scene, but more so in the sequel to the scene. For example, Indiana Jones, here we have him doing all kinds of cool and dangerous things. It is a non-stop bit of action for a fair initial part of the movie. He is being awesome...and then he fails. We see some emotional vulnerability and we also see that he fears snakes. The man who braved terrors and traps if afraid of a relatively harmless creature. It's humanizing we sympathize and then we realize he's like us only cooler.

 

[Heliotrope]

Yes! Thank you Brian!

That's why, for this particular exercise I used movie examples. I'm not talking about the opening words or lines of a scene, I'm talking about an opening scene in general. A character. What, in the opening scene, makes the character 'human/sympathetic/endearing/interesting/likable/different then all the other characters you have seen.'

We also see that Indy is a good problem solver (using sand in a bag to mimic the weight of the statue, even though that failed), he's funny and has sense of humour (very endearing for a lot of people).. etc.

In 'Raiders' we see first thing that all the girls in his class like him and it makes him uncomfortable. Also endearing.

 

[Penpilot]

Save the Cat is a tool everyone uses. I believe the term was first coined by Blake Snyder. He as a fantastic trio of screen writing books that I found tremendously useful for my writing, the first of which is called Save the Cat.

It's inspiration comes from the movie Alien, where Ripley literally saves the cat, giving the audience licence to connect and invest in her character.

Other examples are in Superman, the original motion picture with Christopher Reeves. He literally saves the cat too.

One of the most used Save the Cat short hand tricks used in TV and movies is the drop, where the MC drops a bunch of stuff and someone comes and helps them pick it up. The act of helping someone pick up their stuff elicits an immediate like for that character. This also plays off another form of Save of the Cat called Kick the Cat.

To elicit sympathy and connection to a character, you kick them. When people see someone having a rough time of it, they can easily relate and feel sympathy because who hasn't had a rough day?

In addition, those doing the kicking, the audience tends to form an immediate dislike for them.

 

[Heliotrope]

Thanks PP! That is exactly what I was looking for! Real concrete 'save the cat' moments in both movies or books so we can look at all the different ways "save the cat" can and has been done so we have something to draw from when doing our own.

 

[Russ]

Thanks Russ!

Great example if action opening! So at what point in the scene does the mc become 'human' or at least make you go "oh, this is a cool character' not just 'this is a cool scene' and how does the author show it?

In the second example he seems to begin to humanize the MC about a paragraph and a half later where we find out he is just a poor guy standing in his shirtsleeves outside his motel room, an "everyman" caught in the middle of something very bad that has nothing to do with him. The way the author describes the guy standing outside his hotel room a bit disheveled and confused like any of us might be if we found a body outside our door makes him easy to identify with.

In the first example any real humanizing does not happen for about another 20 pages after Cotton has woken up from the flashback/dream and then killed some guys who have broken into his rare book store (a great profession for a character). He then learns that an old friend is in trouble and immediately wants to go help him. His unhesitating reaction and committment to his old friend tells us he is a "stand up guy" with morals and loyalty that we can respect and would want to emulate.

 

[kennyc]

One of the best/most highly recommended instructional books on this topic is OSC's Characters and Viewpoint.

 

[Mythopoet]

In my opinion, you should just write characters that you care about and find interesting. The more your own interest and investment comes through in the work, the more likely readers will respond to it.

 

[BWFoster78]

In my opinion, you should just write characters that you care about and find interesting. The more your own interest and investment comes through in the work, the more likely readers will respond to it.

This is pretty much what I did for my first novel.

Let's just say that my results weren't great.

In all future writing endeavors, I will pay a whole heckava lot more attention to making sure that the readers like my characters.

 

[Mythopoet]

This is pretty much what I did for my first novel.

Let's just say that my results weren't great.

In all future writing endeavors, I will pay a whole heckava lot more attention to making sure that the readers like my characters.

You can't. Sorry, but readers liking your characters is something you have no control over. It's an entirely subjective thing, like pretty much every single aspect of story telling.

Personally, as a reader, I HATE the idea that writers can somehow "make" reader like or relate to or be interested in any part of a particular work. I HATE the idea that there are certain "methods" or "formulas" you can employ to ensure some kind of reader response. I HATE the idea of "hooks". Readers are not lab rats that you can manipulate at your will. And no one really knows how readers are going to respond to any given book. No one.

 

[Heliotrope]

KennyC, thanks for your "thanks" on my apology post. I was feeling pretty sheepish.

Russ- thanks for getting back about the humanizing of the characters! A few paragraphs in makes sense. 20 pages for the other one! Wow! I wonder if that would be ok in today's market when agents only want you to submit the first 20 pages? What are your thoughts on that? Can I ask what keeps you going for those first 20 pages? Is it because you know the character already from other books? Or is there so much action you barely notice?

PenPilot - I will be ordering "Save the Cat" today. That was exactly what I was looking for!

KennyC - I will also be ordering Orson Scott Card's book. I am very interested in characterization right now. I am really starting to feel that a great character is what moves the entire story (I guess I am character driven, instead of plot driven? I don't know. I'm just starting to really understand the distinction.) I know for myself I am drawn into a book as soon as, like I said to Russ earlier, I start to think "Oh, this is an interesting character.." not just "oh, this is an interesting scene."

Foster - Thanks for your comment and honesty about your first book. I'm starting to understand (same as you) that it is not simply that easy. There is a real science to all of this (a degree in psychology might help lol!) I have recently started building myself a bit of a spread sheet/graph listing all the key points I need in each section of a story to help remind me off all these things, for example:

Opening scene: Show the character in the 'real' world. Show the problems they have and their goals, show how they are not quite ready to solve these problems quite yet… etc etc etc. Now "show save the cat" will be added to that list.

 

[kennyc]

In my opinion, you should just write characters that you care about and find interesting. The more your own interest and investment comes through in the work, the more likely readers will respond to it.

“No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader. No surprise in the writer, no surprise in the reader.”


― Robert Frost

 

[kennyc]

KennyC, thanks for your "thanks" on my apology post. I was feeling pretty sheepish.

...

Don't worry about it. We all have good and bad days/moments for a variety of reasons. So do our story Characters.

 

[Heliotrope]

Thanks Mythopoet That is traditionally what I've been doing, but I feel sometimes like I need a little help breaking down my own mental characterization barriers.

When I really examine other characters that have been done before (especially weird ones) then I think "ohhhh, that is interesting. I wonder how I can use that?"

 

[BWFoster78]

You can't. Sorry, but readers liking your characters is something you have no control over. It's an entirely subjective thing, like pretty much every single aspect of story telling.

I agree to the extent that there is absolutely no way to make every reader like your characters or your book. I'm sure that, if there's any overlap between our reading at all, there are probably characters that I loved that you hated and vice versa.

What I can do (and think that I absolutely should do) is do everything in my power to ensure that the greatest number of readers possible care about my characters. There are well established techniques for accomplishing this. Hopefully, if I pay attention more to the use of such techniques and I cut down on the idiotic mistakes I made, I'll have much better results.

Personally, as a reader, I HATE the idea that writers can somehow "make" reader like or relate to or be interested in any part of a particular work. I HATE the idea that there are certain "methods" or "formulas" you can employ to ensure some kind of reader response. I HATE the idea of "hooks". Readers are not lab rats that you can manipulate at your will. And no one really knows how readers are going to respond to any given book. No one.

I feel completely opposite.

As a reader, I want the author to write with me in mind and deliberately try to manipulate my emotions in many ways. I feel a really good writer should be able to play my emotions like a master violinist.

I also don't think that your opinion on this matter is representative of the audience that I'm trying to reach with my writing.

 

[BWFoster78]

Foster - Thanks for your comment and honesty about your first book. I'm starting to understand (same as you) that it is not simply that easy. There is a real science to all of this (a degree in psychology might help lol!) I have recently started building myself a bit of a spread sheet/graph listing all the key points I need in each section of a story to help remind me off all these things, for example:

I truly believe that understanding that writing fiction is not easy is the first step to learning how to write well.

My advice is to screw up as much as possible. I've learned a whole lot more from my screw ups than from my successes.