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Too few female characters?

Gryphos

Auror
Valentinator said:
Wow, it's getting ridiculous. So here is my train of thought. In order to kill the dragon, a knight must be the best. The best male knights are stronger than the best female knights (in my personal opinion). That doesn't mean all women are weaker than all men. And it doesn't mean that females can't slay the dragon. They can do it differently.

Okay, but you're still implying that women cannot beat the dragon the same way the men can.
 

Valentinator

Minstrel
And you still glossed over my point that neither human sex would be all that effective at cutting up something on the scale of a dragon. The body mass difference between men and women is ~15%. Do you seriously believe that would make such a tremendous difference against such a huge animal which has the advantage in brute strength either way?
We are talking about statistics here. Many knights were slayed by the dragon, one survived. In this case I suppose 15% make a difference.
 

Trick

Auror
So, what, now you want to get into the hormone content of phenotypical females? Does it strike you as ironic in any way that the idea of a physically competent woman sends you down that rabbit hole, where you've immediately got to look around for some kind of explanation to support it? If you have one male character who is vastly superior to another, are you waving it away based on hormone levels (and even the implication that they may not be natural)? If you see a male character in a book who is more sensitive or good with children, are you saying "Oh, I guarantee that this guy has abnormally high female hormones levels!"

Really, it's somewhat astonishing the mental gymnastics so many people want to go through to explain away a competent female character, rather than simply just acknowledging that the character is really good at something and that's OK.

Physical competence and athletic prowess are not the same, nor are they mutually exclusive. I never said the word competent, you did. I find most woman to be more competent in most things than most men, only from personal experience of course, no studies or anything. A woman fighting a dragon, for instance, is totally plausible to me but a woman fighting men who are equally athletic and trained at level with her is less plausible. If she defeats one, great and believable. If she defeats ten back to back, which is so common in campy action movies, she is one hell of a strategist and I better know that before the scene takes place, because I would require the same of a male character.

Further. if I see one man who is significantly physically superior to other (closer to average) men I would absolutely reach the conclusion that he had higher male hormone levels than say, myself. I am tall but I am thin and not terribly athletic. I could put the work in but I will never be a bodybuilder without steroids. Some people can be incredible athletes with no unnatural treatments and that's wonderful but I'm not one of them. On the flip side, a sensitive man, let's say much more sensitive than average for argument's sake, could definitely have lower male hormones than the average but not necessarily. And being good with kids is neither a male nor female trait in my opinion, though apparently you would like to assume what my beliefs are based on completely unrelated information. Now, if I were to observe a man with a physical build more in line with the average female I might conclude that he was low on male hormones. That is not an insult, it's simply the way some people are born.

You are using a strawman in it's purest form. I said that women cannot compete blow for blow with men on a high athletic level and made no claims that women couldn't be good at "something." Every female athlete who reaches even a modicum of success could definitely kick my butt and I am not ashamed to admit it. Mostly because the whole concept of the strawman you erected is sheer nonsense, in my opinion.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
We are talking about statistics here. Many knights were slayed by the dragon, one survived. In this case I suppose 15% make a difference.

Only true if strength is a significant factor to begin with, which is an assumption you make that is not necessarily true. GIven the size ans strength differential, you just just as "realistically" posit that wit and speed are the significant factors and the 15% strength difference is negligible.
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
Okay, I'm being deliberately silly here, but...
Onyxia3.jpg

I don't think 15% here or there would make much difference for this guy - and I can't even quite tell if it's a man or a woman.
 

Gryphos

Auror
I don't know why but you're inferring that not behaving like a man is an insult. I actually think that different behavior is quite smart.

Again, are you or are you not saying that women cannot beat the dragon the same way as the men? This isn't about whether they should, this is purely about whether it is possible. And you appear to have been saying it is not possible for the women to beat the dragon the same way as the men.
 

ascanius

Inkling
Okay, I'm being deliberately silly here, but...
Onyxia3.jpg

I don't think 15% here or there would make much difference for this guy - and I can't even quite tell if it's a man or a woman.

Night elf guy

I found the last 7 pages hilarious, for the seriousness of the topic seems people have a sense of humor. I really like your first post Jabrosky.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Okay, I'm being deliberately silly here, but...


I don't think 15% here or there would make much difference for this guy - and I can't even quite tell if it's a man or a woman.

Yeah. It's like saying a 15% stronger beetle is going to have a significant advantage in stopping me from stepping on it.
 

Valentinator

Minstrel
Only true if strength is a significant factor to begin with, which is an assumption you make that is not necessarily true. GIven the size ans strength differential, you just just as "realistically" posit that wit and speed are the significant factors and the 15% strength difference is negligible.

Well I'm not an expert in dragon slaying. Are you? If not I'm not quite sure why do we keep arguing.
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
I already mentioned Alice and the Jabberwocky in this thread, but I wanted to share a clip of the full battle just in case anyone is interested:

[video=youtube_share;kDmJj73G_JA]http://youtu.be/kDmJj73G_JA[/video]

That's some Dragon Slaying! XD
 
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