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Endings: subtle v. overt?

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Working on a story involving two sisters, one of whom has always been subservient to the other. She struggles against this, but the end transformation of the character occurs when she realizes that she'll never break loose from her sister - she just doesn't have the strength in her and she loves her sister perhaps more than herself. Certainly more than anyone or anything else.

Only had one beta reader, so n=1 here, but the reader thought the ending was unclear (or at least that the significance of the ending was unclear). The ending is there - it's the transformation from which the younger sister will never go back. Her world has undergone a shift. It's subtle. I don't make the point explicitly, but instead the reader is left to piece together just how significant this event is for the sister.

What do you all think - does that kind of subtle, open-to-interpretation ending bug you? Wouldn't you rather have the author state the point directly?
 

Russ

Istar
I have a depends answer for your question.

To me it depends on the rest of the book. IF the book is straightforward, and action oriented I think the ending has to fit.

If the book has many subtle undertones and undercurrents, it not fast paced, is more character than event driven, than a ambiguous or subtle ending can be very satisfying.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I have a depends answer for your question.

To me it depends on the rest of the book. IF the book is straightforward, and action oriented I think the ending has to fit.

If the book has many subtle undertones and undercurrents, it not fast paced, is more character than event driven, than a ambiguous or subtle ending can be very satisfying.

Yes, I agree. In this case, it's a short story. And while there is some action in the short story, it is really more character/theme oriented and fixed around the younger sister's struggle to stand up to her sister who is going down a path she doesn't agree with.
 

Reaver

Staff
Moderator
I like reading stories with subtle plots and character motivations / apotheosis. I can't write those kinds of stories but damned if I don't like them.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Yes, pulling it off is another issue. This isn't the type of story I normally write. The underlying theme deals with issues of colonialism, and whether advances in medicine, technology and the like gained by a less dominant culture outweigh the loss of indigenous culture and tradition. That's the source of the conflict between the sisters.

First version of this story I wrote didn't work. I determined it was due to the fact that I chose the dominant sister as the POV character. She's confident and assured throughout and doesn't really have any internal conflict with respect to what she is doing. All of those conflicts reside within the younger sister, so now I'm rewriting the story from her point of view.
 

Reaver

Staff
Moderator
Yes, pulling it off is another issue. This isn't the type of story I normally write. The underlying theme deals with issues of colonialism, and whether advances in medicine, technology and the like gained by a less dominant culture outweigh the loss of indigenous culture and tradition. That's the source of the conflict between the sisters.

First version of this story I wrote didn't work. I determined it was due to the fact that I chose the dominant sister as the POV character. She's confident and assured throughout and doesn't really have any internal conflict with respect to what she is doing. All of those conflicts reside within the younger sister, so now I'm rewriting the story from her point of view.

I gotta read this man! I'll PM my e-mail to you.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
I think the subtle ending would work. I'm willing to bet if you're overt about it someone will say that's too on the nose.

I don't think I'd be unreasonable to expect the reader in this instance to do a little work.
 

Nimue

Auror
I don't think this is a question of whether resolutions need to be explicitly stated or whether people like ambiguity or not, I think the question is whether you have done an adequate job conveying the meaning in your story, specifically.

That can be hard to assess with n=1. And the immediate corollary is this: Do you need the reader to come away with the message you're trying to convey? Is that necessary to really enjoy the story or feel that it was fulfilling? Or is this story a valuable experience even if the reader comes away thinking the opposite of what you as the author meant?

Might be good to consider the aim before the approach.
 

Heliotrope

Staff
Article Team
I do know, though, with myself that when I feel like I'm bashing the reader on the head with the obviousness of the transformation it is 'barely enough' for the reader. What seems obvious to us as writers may not be clear enough for the reader.

I would suggest having a few other betas have a look and if they "get it" then it is a one off. If they don't, then you might need to reconsider how 'subtle' you are being.

Another great exercise I do when I beta read is instead of giving critique first I send a quick summary of the story back to the author. That quick summary is usually a paragraph or a few lines telling exactly what I saw happening in the story. Often it is like the telephone game and what I got from the story as the reader is nothing like what the author was intending. From this exercise, the author can go back and try to correct what was unclear in order to help their true vision come through. If yours is a short story this might be something to try with a few betas.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I don't think this is a question of whether resolutions need to be explicitly stated or whether people like ambiguity or not, I think the question is whether you have done an adequate job conveying the meaning in your story, specifically.

That can be hard to assess with n=1. And the immediate corollary is this: Do you need the reader to come away with the message you're trying to convey? Is that necessary to really enjoy the story or feel that it was fulfilling? Or is this story a valuable experience even if the reader comes away thinking the opposite of what you as the author meant?

Might be good to consider the aim before the approach.

Good questions, Nimue. I am not interjecting my own viewpoint into the story, and I can see valid arguments favoring both sisters' positions. The reader can come away thinking the dominant sister is right or wrong, or perhaps even a little sinister. Whichever way they come out doesn't impact the enjoyment of the story, in my view. But I do think that to be satisfied with the ending the reader should realize that the little sister has moved past a point of no return, where she's accepted that she can never muster up the strength to oppose her older sister and on many levels doesn't want to.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I do know, though, with myself that when I feel like I'm bashing the reader on the head with the obviousness of the transformation it is 'barely enough' for the reader. What seems obvious to us as writers may not be clear enough for the reader.

I would suggest having a few other betas have a look and if they "get it" then it is a one off. If they don't, then you might need to reconsider how 'subtle' you are being.

Another great exercise I do when I beta read is instead of giving critique first I send a quick summary of the story back to the author. That quick summary is usually a paragraph or a few lines telling exactly what I saw happening in the story. Often it is like the telephone game and what I got from the story as the reader is nothing like what the author was intending. From this exercise, the author can go back and try to correct what was unclear in order to help their true vision come through. If yours is a short story this might be something to try with a few betas.

Also good points. Maybe I'll ask the next beta reader(s) to do this. And I agree that there are things that will seem obvious to me because I'm writing it and know what I mean. I've already had to add some additional information about the culture I'm writing about, because I know a lot of their history and background and my reader didn't and was a bit lost.
 

Nimue

Auror
I do know, though, with myself that when I feel like I'm bashing the reader on the head with the obviousness of the transformation it is 'barely enough' for the reader. What seems obvious to us as writers may not be clear enough for the reader.
I have to agree with Heliotrope on this sentiment as well. I know I try to err on the side of clarity, not writing a whole lot of subtle themes myself, and still things get misunderstood. As writers, we read all our associations and intentions wound into the words on the page...
 

Reaver

Staff
Moderator
Also good points. Maybe I'll ask the next beta reader(s) to do this. And I agree that there are things that will seem obvious to me because I'm writing it and know what I mean. I've already had to add some additional information about the culture I'm writing about, because I know a lot of their history and background and my reader didn't and was a bit lost.

Just take a decade off and do what Tolkien and Herbert did. I'm talking the whole thing man. Appendices, languages, poems, songs...Everything.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Just take a decade off and do what Tolkien and Herbert did. I'm talking the whole thing man. Appendices, languages, poems, songs...Everything.

Cool. Can I give you the address where to send my monthly support checks until it is done? :D
 
C

Chessie

Guest
Just take a decade off and do what Tolkien and Herbert did. I'm talking the whole thing man. Appendices, languages, poems, songs...Everything.
Wasn't he a college professor, though? If you ask me, it sounds like Tolkien was a pretty awesome dude. I haven't known too many professors that write about nerdy things.
 

Reaver

Staff
Moderator
Wasn't he a college professor, though? If you ask me, it sounds like Tolkien was a pretty awesome dude. I haven't known too many professors that write about nerdy things.

Tolkien was a college professor. Steerpike is definitely smart enough and talented enough to pull it off.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I will echo what Heliotrope says -- and what is said by many agents and editors. Make it explicit. Authors err often on the side of obscurity, but only rarely on the side of being too obvious.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Thanks for the advice, all. I will work in some language that provides some additional pointers. I don't want to hit the reader over the head with it, or insult their intelligence. I read a lot of literary fiction and, particularly with regard to short stories, the authors rarely come out and state the point in overt terms. That's the idea I want to go for here, but with enough there for the reader to actually draw conclusions. If I can make it work.
 
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