Ask me about swords.

[Aldarion]

OK, you sword people, a practical question. My character is fitted with a sheath on his back. I picture the usual sort of movie thing, but then I try to picture how he withdraws it.

The blade is at least two feet long, more likely three. He reaches over his shoulder, I don't think his arm is long enough for the sword to clear the sheath. Does it rotate somehow, maybe away from the body so as to pull more horizontally? Or some other method? Or this only works for shorter swords?

I sort of want it on the back because MC needs to do some tricky climbing so he can't carry it in hand, and a longer sword at hip would get in the way. Pretty much has to be on the back. A sheath more or less loose on the back seems like it would work but it also seems like it would flop around a lot.

Answer: he doesn't.

To draw something from the shoulder, it has to be short (bayonets were sometimes worn that way) or he will need to remove scabbard completely from his back and draw from hand.

Hm. Now I'm more puzzled than ever. I know from various specific historical examples that warriors did climb. They scaled ladders but also climbed more improbable surfaces and even leaped onto horseback in full armor. How in the world did they manage to carry battle-ready swords?

You can climb with a sword hanging from the hip. And swords often didn't hang from the belt, but rather were held by an over-the-shoulder strap, which allowed a lot of freedom in how exactly you carried your sword.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Yeah, this is tricky. I have a character with a harness that carries a sword over each shoulder, but there is a release that lets them drop to his hips. Shadversity did it basically how my first thought worked, but he'd worked out the details of the scabbard.

Nice video.

 

[skip.knox]

Good answers here, as ever. Plus, some basic searching shows there is a variety of answers to my questions. Basically they all tend toward carry on the back but swing or slide it around to some more convenient position for withdrawing. And returning. One small surprise was a statement that the greatswords of the Scots (presumably late medieval, early modern) were too long to be worn at hip and so were worn on the back.

Some pictures of samurai show how creative it was possible to get with sword-wear. I think my MC will be fine, given that he's clambering up a lindwurm.

But some magician somewhere in Altearth really ought to invent a quick-release sword that can be worn in any cool arrangement. Or maybe just floats along beside. I mean, practical magic!

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Shadversity's scabbard is sweet. It's a simple concept and appears to work pretty damned good in particular for extra-long blades.

My thought seems right; you just need to have the blade slide out of the scabbard after a certain point instead of pulling from a full-length leather sheath. By going to a solid material design, it's pretty damned slick.

 

[skip.knox]

I'm fine with slick, but I'm always interested in historical precedents, even if I don't actually use them. Occupational disease, I'm afraid.

I keep thinking of the Crusaders scaling the walls of Jerusalem. There's Godfrey (oh, let's give him the credit) climbing the ladder. Both hands on the rails! Now he gets to the top. It ain't like the place is unoccupied. Er, 'scuse me a second while I get my sword out. There. OK, fight!

Hm. Or, maybe he climbs while one hand holds his sword at the ready. Look out below! Sorry! OK, he's a pro so he doesn't drop the sword. But he still has to get off the ladder and onto the wall, which is famously *not* a fighting position. Should only take a few moments, though, so I can write that off to luck. I bet there were others not so lucky and found themselves trying to get off a ladder while being attacked. Ouch. Oh, and don't forget the shield. Where the heck is the shield?

However you look at it, first over the wall definitely deserves the praise. Primus pilum, fer sure.

It's funny how years of reading, years of teaching, I don't consider such things until I am writing a story where I have to move a character through a certain situation. Then it becomes sort of unavoidable.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

The tricky part is that wood and textiles rot and disappear, so it's hard for historical precedent. However, some giant swords carried in a sheath or scabbard at the waist are impractical as hell, leaving the back as the only real option. Those folks weren't stupid, so if it was possible with the materials they had, it's pretty safe to say they did it. Wood. Glue. Leather. Nothing complicated in construction, and the concept is simple enough (I visualized it in about 30 seconds of light thinking). It's not like you have to describe the scabbard, just that something exists to carry the sword on the back that allows its being drawn.

 

[Malik]

OK, you sword people, a practical question. My character is fitted with a sheath on his back. I picture the usual sort of movie thing, but then I try to picture how he withdraws it.

The blade is at least two feet long, more likely three. He reaches over his shoulder, I don't think his arm is long enough for the sword to clear the sheath. Does it rotate somehow, maybe away from the body so as to pull more horizontally? Or some other method? Or this only works for shorter swords?

I sort of want it on the back because MC needs to do some tricky climbing so he can't carry it in hand, and a longer sword at hip would get in the way. Pretty much has to be on the back. A sheath more or less loose on the back seems like it would work but it also seems like it would flop around a lot.

I carry a five-foot greatsword on a simple belt across my back at conventions. It's my shtick: a sport jacket and a big goddamned sword. You see me at a con, you know it's me.

To draw it, I simply lift the belt off my shoulder and draw the sword, throwing the scabbard away. My characters carry their greatswords and two-handers the same way. If expecting trouble--say, walking a bad stretch of road, or in my case even going to my car in the convention parking lot at 1 AM--you lift the baldric/belt from one shoulder to the other; from there, it's easy to shrug the sword into your strong hand. As an added bonus, you can use the scabbard in your off-hand for parrying or just to nail someone really hard across the face as a non-lethal option. My scabbard is oak under thick leather with steel furniture, and it's basically a shillelagh. (If you've trained with a garrote, ropes, wire, or slung shot, you can improvise all kinds of nasty things in CQB with the leather belt, as well. You can wreck somebody using an authentic scabbard if A.) you know what you're doing, and B.) they don't take you seriously.)

But yeah. Carrying across the back? Great.

Drawing from across the back? Very difficult unless it's a specialized rig. Doable. -ish.

Re-inserting on the back? Yowsa. Not me. I really want to see a fantasy character who insists on carrying their sword on their back and have a scene where they take off their shirt to reveal hundreds of scars from practicing sheathing it. To their credit, they finally learned how to do it . . .

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Fortunately, one hopefully isn't in a hurry to sheath their weapon. It takes two seconds to figure out how much of a pain in the ass (or shoulder/back) that would be. A specialized rig is doable, the question is whether it's worth the extra effort/cost. In a D&D adventure world, I would imagine yes! Gimme that custom scabbard. Real world? Huh. I'm not sure.

I carry a five-foot greatsword on a simple belt across my back at conventions. It's my shtick: a sport jacket and a big goddamned sword. You see me at a con, you know it's me.

To draw it, I simply lift the belt off my shoulder and draw the sword, throwing the scabbard away. My characters carry their greatswords and two-handers the same way. If expecting trouble--say, walking a bad stretch of road, or in my case even going to my car in the convention parking lot at 1 AM--you lift the baldric/belt from one shoulder to the other; from there, it's easy to shrug the sword into your strong hand. As an added bonus, you can use the scabbard in your off-hand for parrying or just to nail someone really hard across the face as a non-lethal option. My scabbard is oak under thick leather with steel furniture, and it's basically a shillelagh. (If you've trained with a garrote, ropes, wire, or slung shot, you can improvise all kinds of nasty things in CQB with the leather belt, as well. You can wreck somebody using an authentic scabbard if A.) you know what you're doing, and B.) they don't take you seriously.)

But yeah. Carrying across the back? Great.

Drawing from across the back? Very difficult unless it's a specialized rig. Doable. -ish.

Re-inserting on the back? Yowsa. Not me. I really want to see a fantasy character who insists on carrying their sword on their back and have a scene where they take off their shirt to reveal hundreds of scars from practicing sheathing it. To their credit, they finally learned how to do it . . .

 

[skip.knox]

I do appreciate the comments; they'll prove useful. My MC is not a warrior, though he's athletic enough. This sword and scabbard are lent to him in a moment of crisis. There's little time to figure anything out; in fact, the actual warrior has to help him fit it on properly. It's a magic sword, though, which will make up for my MC's lack of actual battle experience. Well, lack unless you count stage battles. He's an actor.

'Scuse me, I have to go write a scene. And, er, adjust certain technical details in what I've already written.

 

[Ban]

Re-inserting on the back? Yowsa. Not me. I really want to see a fantasy character who insists on carrying their sword on their back and have a scene where they take off their shirt to reveal hundreds of scars from practicing sheathing it. To their credit, they finally learned how to do it . . .

Could magnets work in theory? You'd have a fixed back to protect your back, with magnets embedded in it to hold onto the sword. Less ideal for passersby, but in a given setting such social constraints might not matter.

Would likely make it hard to retract the sword.

 

[pmmg]

OK, you sword people, a practical question. My character is fitted with a sheath on his back. I picture the usual sort of movie thing, but then I try to picture how he withdraws it.

The blade is at least two feet long, more likely three. He reaches over his shoulder, I don't think his arm is long enough for the sword to clear the sheath. Does it rotate somehow, maybe away from the body so as to pull more horizontally? Or some other method? Or this only works for shorter swords?

I sort of want it on the back because MC needs to do some tricky climbing so he can't carry it in hand, and a longer sword at hip would get in the way. Pretty much has to be on the back. A sheath more or less loose on the back seems like it would work but it also seems like it would flop around a lot.

Passing on the shadversity scabbard, cause I dont know of any historical example.


To me the obvious answers is, if they are expecting battle, they carry it in their hand when climbing.

I dont think a sword could really be drawn from a back scabbard unless the blade was curved, climbing or not. And the longer the blade, the more unlikely this is. But, I dont think it is hard to imagine that if the manner of carrying it for a specific task becomes impractical, they move the sword to another position.

I do often think of this in my own story. The MC is described as short, and their sword as being too big for them. While they do have a scabbard to carry it, and even that has changed several times, I do kind of take for granted that its not really a detail I have to make sure the reader knows. It is enough that they pulled it free.

In my imagination, and if pressed, I think the scabbard must be slit along the bottom some distance along the length, to make pulling it easier. They only have to draw part way, and the slit scabbard allows it to be be pulled completely free. There may be a tie, or a fastener to keep it in place, if needed. I picture the character as having it at their side, but I can see them carrying the sword in hand, scabbard and all, and using it as a walking stick at times. And later, tying it over their back if they needed the freedom for some reason.

A side scabbard would not likely suffice as a back scabbard and still allow good motion, so....they will need time to readjust to get the sword out.

If they were scaling a wall, they would have the sword in hand. If there as some reason not to, I suppose it would dangle from their side. If it was lashed to their back, and they need to draw it, I dont suspect they could. They would have to adjust the scabbard so it fell lower and pull it. I could...if I was being cinematic, see them pulling the sword and letting the scabbard fall as if they released it completely, like they pulled the straps away to make it function.

(PS: The site needs a better way to post images without having to link, or upload them to portfolios or such).

 

[Ban]

(PS: The site needs a better way to post images without having to link, or upload them to portfolios or such).

You can upload them directly. Just click on the icon with a sun and mountains and click on "drop image" to find it on your device.

 

[pmmg]

All it lets me do is insert a link. They pic has to already exist on the internet somewhere to link to.

By URL is the only choice.

 

[Ban]

There should be two icons with a sun and mountains. One is for media, meaning gifs and videos (it has a background square), the other is for images. Are you sure you are clicking the correct one?

 

[Aldarion]

There should be two icons with a sun and mountains. One is for media, meaning gifs and videos (it has a background square), the other is for images. Are you sure you are clicking the correct one?

Both images and media only allow for URL.

 

[Ban]

Well that's odd. Was it always that way, or is this a recent development?

 

[pmmg]

Ill let you guys work it out.

I does make posting pics a pain, when its a pic on my PC and not already on the internet.

I dont really want to spam the boards with media items.

 

[Finchbearer]

Well that's odd. Was it always that way, or is this a recent development?

I’ve found this to always be the way and MS is also picky as to which links it will give a free pass to

 

[Prince of Spires]

Passing on the shadversity scabbard, cause I dont know of any historical example.

I'm divided on this. I agree that without any historical examples it's hard to believe it was common. On the other hand, if they wanted to solve this, and a guy with a Youtube channel can come up with a bunch of solutions in a few days or weeks of playing around, then people doing this sort of stuff for a living, and who would have their lives depend on it would have found solutions as well.

Sword scabbards aren't the most sexy of things (generally speaking), so it could simply be a case where no one cared enough about them to write down what they did and how, and they discarded them when broken beyond fixing.

The discussion (and Skip's comments) did raise a completely different question for me. How did people actually scale walls when attempting to storm a castle? Running up a lader waving a weapon of some kind feels like a losing proposition. Send up a guy holding a shield over his head?

 

[pmmg]

The discussion (and Skip's comments) did raise a completely different question for me. How did people actually scale walls when attempting to storm a castle? Running up a lader waving a weapon of some kind feels like a losing proposition. Send up a guy holding a shield over his head?

I think this was mostly a numbers thing. Just tried to overwhelm them with numbers.

But, you would likely have armor, and you could carry a shield and sword and still do it.

I suspect the most common method was shield over back, sword dangling from side, and drawn as you go close to the top, or sword in hand and you just managed it.