Dancing on the boundry between fantasy and the future

[BeigePalladin]

so, I've had a cocnept bouncing round in my head for a long time, but there's always been one thing bugging me about it; It's pretty far into the sci-fi scene, and I'm aiming for fantasy....

To extrapolate, the idea is based off a combination of After the End and Space Opera scifi, with a large portion of High Fantasy in the mix, generous helpings of Dungeon Punk and a few smatterings of dark and urban fantasy.

The world iself is kind of a simulation (it's coplicated) to avert a disaster and protect the inhabitants until the outside is safe once more (less complicated). Initialy non-fantastical, the simulation was given a sentient AI to manage it/control this world so future generations raised there would be able to adapt to the world outside the simulation after it ends. The problem is, the AI (as AI'd always do) didn;t behave perfectly, and developed an imagination, which in turn effected the world. Generations have passed, and the knowledge the world is a creation is lost; so the people have the technology levels they went in with, with some small advancements made, at the same time as having ambeint magic, fantastical beasts and monsters, and every flavour of people. And of course, something is going to go wrong, but that's not pertinent at the moment

but once thats done, I hit my problem

My problem comes from the fact I'm struggling to keep it mostly fantasy, whilst still intergrating (as a major element) sci-fi tech and ideals, along with things such as bio-modification etc. does anyone else have any experience/tips for mixing the two without the sci-fi taking over?

sorry if this is vauge; me and sleep have had an argument and I'm not letting it back in until it appologises.

 

[Queshire]

"Any sufficently advanced technology is indestinguishible from magic" I think it'd be easy enough to do what you suggest, just use more fantasy-ish terms then sci-fi terms. Hacking the VR might be a type of magic, Bio-engineering might be Life Magic. I say start in the virtual reality world to begin with and have the truth of it being a sci-fi world being a reveal. Sort of like the Matrix, but less...

Maybe there's priests whose prayers are actually command codes to the god AI.

 

[ThinkerX]

My problem comes from the fact I'm struggling to keep it mostly fantasy, whilst still intergrating (as a major element) sci-fi tech and ideals, along with things such as bio-modification etc. does anyone else have any experience/tips for mixing the two without the sci-fi taking over?

Real simple and phausible way: the bio-modifications and other sci-fi stuff are under the iron handed control of a quasi religious group who pass the science off as a form of magic. This quasi-religious group was originally founded to protect this knowledge when it seemed imperilled, and has an effective monopoly over it. Save for a few hidden scientists, they are the only ones who have this knowledge. Everybody else just thinks of it as a form of magic.

That said, is the magic 'real' in this setting or simply a creation of the AI?

Also...unless the destruction outside was effectively total (no survivors), then what do the people outside think of this...place? Do they attempt to send in agents now and again? Avoid it like the plague? How about groups on the inside occasionally venturing forth?

 

[grahamguitarman]

I was discussing a story plot idea just like this two nights ago in the chat room thingy.

Although my story world is mainly steampunk oriented so the science fiction elements are not a problem. And in my story most of the human inhabitants know they are in a virtual reality situation though, so what you are describing is what could possibly happen well into the future of what I'm writing.

I think it would take many generations for all knowledge of the outside world to disappear in a virtual world. How do you stop people from telling their grand kids about the old world for example?

Couple of points to consider, who cares for the bodies of those in your VR world? And how do they reproduce, given that their bodies would only last 120 years max? Then if there are people on the outside, do they know what is happening in the VR world.

 

[BeigePalladin]

thanks for the responses

seems I did fail to comunicate something like I thought I would; I ery much intend for the characters of the world to know full well the technology they possess, as well as the more mystical elements of the world. Less of a "fooling of the lesser masses by passing of tech as magic" and more of a symbosis between tech and magic - the tech just seems to be taking over very, very heavily.

as to the situation outside the virtual world/within it:

As an overiew, the society before the catastrophie (a global scale collapse of the atmosphere due to a foreign element introduced into the ozone-layer from the depths of space, leaving the planet airless and lifeless) was on the cusp interstellar colinizations, just lacking the power supply for extended mass person interstellar transportation.
Society at the time possessed technology to quickly create and grow "dolls", lifeless but functional human bodies, which where used for medicinal purposes - the genova convention 2XX9 forbiding the use of artificial humans in warfare or labour (except in extreme cases). They possessed the ability to give minds to the dolls, but did not (and as an extention of this, is how they planned to leave the simulation even if their bodies are destroyed/how they planned to allow reproduction).

When the catastrophies was detected, it was predicted that it would take at most three years before the planet was uninhabitable. In response a number of virtual hubs - technology previously used for entertainment/communication/training - where erected to serve as a depository for the human population. In addition, teraforming engines - tech developed during the space-race - where set up across the globe, set to begin in a 10 year gap*.
In the places where the hubs where stored, so was genetic samples and the base materials needed to repopulate the area through the doll-creation program/vacuum sealed mechanical servants. Each hub was situated in deep, concealed underground bunkers. Once the minds of each Hub's residents was stored, the bodies where broken down into materials - the decision made that it would be easier to reproduce them in better condition that store the origionals and hope for minimal damage.

For most of the hubs, the plan went perfectly - save the one in which the story be set. The area around it failed to terraform, leaving it highly iradiated and unsuitable for human inhabitation. As communications with the other hubs vanished, and reports of the world outside the hub in question started getting worse and worse, the AI in control resolved that the best way to preserve humanity was to maintain the virtual world. Thus, it slowly but surely started ceeding out records that the inhaitants lived within a virtual world.

after two hundred years with no repair work, the AI's sensors of the real world began to falter, and thus it did not learn the world outside had eventually been cleansed and re-inhabited. It has been 840 years, but recently, the Hub was accessed, the gate opened from without...

hope that answers questions

* In case your wondering why they didn't begin imediatly, the rate of terraforming was far, far slower than the decay - it would take about 60-70 years to re-terraform the planet after the end

 

[Queshire]

Hrmmm..........................................................
I'm having trouble imagining it...

Is the main character someone from the outside world that opens the vault and gets sucked into the simulation? I mean, that's just about the only way I can imagine it. It'd be different if the "fantasy" world was a physical place and some one wanders out into the outer world, but I can't imagine a character in a simulation wandering out.

Or you could go the other way, the people in the outside world has regressed to a fantasy style culture, and the member finds a lost vault of technological doo-dads.

 

[BeigePalladin]

I believe you misinterpreted a characterilogical point of view from my extrapolation; the chap who entered into the simulation was not, except in some very unusual methods of looking at it, the main character

 

[Queshire]

So who is the main character?

 

[BeigePalladin]

a few folk from the simulation world.

 

[Anders Ämting]

"Any sufficently advanced technology is indestinguishible from magic"

But only to those who do not understand it. Case in point.

thanks for the responses

seems I did fail to comunicate something like I thought I would; I ery much intend for the characters of the world to know full well the technology they possess, as well as the more mystical elements of the world. Less of a "fooling of the lesser masses by passing of tech as magic" and more of a symbosis between tech and magic - the tech just seems to be taking over very, very heavily.

What if the magic part just totally kicks the science part's ass? They live in a simulation, right? Then all it takes is the AI overriding anything that doesn't fit its fantasy. So, they can have all the tech they want, but once something magical comes around it goes like: "Oh, an antigravity generator? That's cute. Hey, look! I made a flying horse that can control the weather!"

The inhabitants could use tech to take advantage of some of the magical elements, which is where you get your symbiosis, but that will still mean that some of their tech will be based on and even dependant on the magic. Heck, these guys may even have technology that is actually magic - science that only works because the AI says so. I mean, how would they know?

The great irony of all this is, of course, that the magic is ultimately just more science provided by the AI.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

"Any sufficently advanced technology is indestinguishible from magic"

I prefer the alternative: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced"

 

[Anders Ämting]

I prefer the alternative: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced"

I say: "Any person who can't distinguish technology from magic is insufficiently avanced."

 

[Saigonnus]

I would say think of alternative ways for things you want to incorporate into the story. Who's to say (for example) it wouldn't be possible for a particularly talented craftsman to fashion an artificial clockwork limb... a wizard could enchant it so it functions like a real arm and virtually indestructible... then a great healer attaches that arm to a person's body. Not Cybernetics but magic for a fantasy world. Imagine a "Guild" or organization that specializes in such things so people who can afford it can get prosthetics.

Also consider things like airships (using hot air or magic for the suspension) for long distance travel instead of the mundane sailing ships, could add a depth to the world and make it interesting to the readers. You can always find a fantasy solution to the sci-fi questions (within reason of course) teleportation instead of transporters, maybe even space ships (resembling regular ships but magically protected from the cold void of space.)

 

[Phin Scardaw]

Yours sounds like a story I'd be inclined to read!

In fact, I'm working on something that runs along rather similar lines: global catastrophe, a society in a Noah's Ark run by an AI that confirms the illusion, the marriage of tech and magic.

First of all, I'd say that you should allow yourself to bend genres. Don't be afraid to include whatever elements the story calls for, be it advanced technology, sex, or spiritual truth - all of which can be tricky to incorporate.

The tone you set for your story will help determine which line it falls on, I'd say. If you focus on natural elements, or the fantastical nature of the AI's imaginary creations, then it becomes more of a fantasy story. If you focus on the technology, then it will be more sci-fi. But if your characters aren't even aware of their past, and seek no real advancements with their technology, then chances are they'd just take what they already have for granted, in which case you could pass over the odd bits of tech they have very casually. Also, if there is a lot of technology you want you readers to learn about, you can try to hold back the exposition until late in the story, perhaps allowing your readers to discover certain truths only as the characters do, as the climax approaches.

How do you feel the technology is making it too heavily sci-fi?

I remember I had a friend who read W. Gibson's novel, Pattern Recognition, which is set in our world and our time, but she remarked that it was written as if a sci-fi novel. Which is Gibson's great talent: to make us see even the technology we have already as a marvel. The beautiful thing about sci-fi and fantasy stories is how they transport us to strange worlds, and introduce us to strange new elements. Which of these strange elements your writing focuses on will decide the tone.

There are stories that jump genres, too. Think of Vanilla Sky, in which the story morphs from Murder Mystery to Love Story to Psychological Thriller to transcendental Science-Fiction. What if your story jumps halfway from fantasy to sci-fi when the AI reveals to the characters the truth? There's nothing wrong with that, and handled correctly could be a great read!