Does Anyone Else Hate Sympathetic Villains?

[skip.knox]

The title of this thread inspires me to flip it around.

Does anyone hate unsympathetic heroes?

Pretty much the same conversation will take place. For myself, just make them interesting, hero and villain both. Sympathy is less important.

 

[Gurkhal]

I did find characters I liked and disliked. He killed them all, leaving me with characters I didn't care much about one way or the other. If I want realism, I'll put down books and go outside. I want a good story. GRRM gave me one. Then he shattered it into (for me) meaningless pieces.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll be able to connect with some of the new introductions if you decide to stay for the next book when/if it comes out.

The title of this thread inspires me to flip it around.

Does anyone hate unsympathetic heroes?

Pretty much the same conversation will take place. For myself, just make them interesting, hero and villain both. Sympathy is less important.

I agree entirely with you. Having interesting characters is far, far more important than them being sympathic to me. Now being unsympathetic is not a virtue, but being morally upstanding and boring me to tears is not the kind of character I want to read about.

 

[Steerpike]

Pretty much the same conversation will take place. For myself, just make them interesting, hero and villain both. Sympathy is less important.

Yes. It is hard to find books where the author doesn't try to create at least some sympathy for the "hero," but I'm perfectly fine with that if the book is good and holds my interest.

 

[Peat]

The title of this thread inspires me to flip it around.

Does anyone hate unsympathetic heroes?

Pretty much the same conversation will take place. For myself, just make them interesting, hero and villain both. Sympathy is less important.

Depends how unsympathetic we're talking and what sort of nature they have. I love Glokta, who is arguably quite unsympathetic because he goes around torturing people, but loathe Jezal because he's a self-important mediocrity of a human being with no self awareness. But then Glokta is funny, which is always sympathetic, while Jezal is mainly whiny, which isn't.

Also, for what its worth, I'm pretty close to taking the same stance as you on SoIaF and Martin killing the interesting characters.

 

[TheKillerBs]

The title of this thread inspires me to flip it around.

Does anyone hate unsympathetic heroes?

Pretty much the same conversation will take place. For myself, just make them interesting, hero and villain both. Sympathy is less important.

I do hate unsympathetic protagonists. I need a reason to care about them otherwise I tend to lose interest in stories very quickly.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I feel like we're confusing the ability to sympathize with a character and the ability to approve of their actions.

You can sympathize even with a completely wretched character. In fact, I feel like a mark of good writing is the ability to create sympathy with characters whose actions the reader couldn't condone or even stomach. Even if I find a character repulsive, i feel like it's important to understand, even to a very limited degree, why they are the way they are. At least understand their actions. I like to be made uncomfortable by how much i sympathize with a character who's evil. Their actions are evil, but i understand. I see the mirror of their wrath/anger/fear/whatever motivates them in myself. That, to me, is the best kind of antagonist.

"Unsympathetic character" is almost an oxymoron to me, honestly. I feel like the reader should be able to sympathize with most (developed) characters on some level. That's what makes a character a character and not a limp raw chicken breast. If the antagonists aren't sympathetic, do they have any depth?

Thus, I'd say that an unsympathetic hero is...well, difficult to conceive of, first of all. I almost don't think an unsympathetic main character can work.

The MC of my WIP is prickly, selfish, morally ambiguous, and not really able to be called a "hero." She's self-serving. She's a murderer and has no problem screwing over people who trust her to get her own way. But is she unsympathetic? Hell no. She's hurt and conflicted, wrestling with identity and what she is meant to become. She puts up walls against everyone because she's afraid to open. She's terrified of weakness. I don't expect my readers to be able to morally justify her actions. She murders a fifteen year old. But I hope that they will sympathize with her, even if they hate themselves for it.

 

[TheKillerBs]

I feel like we're confusing the ability to sympathize with a character and the ability to approve of their actions.

You can sympathize even with a completely wretched character. In fact, I feel like a mark of good writing is the ability to create sympathy with characters whose actions the reader couldn't condone or even stomach. Even if I find a character repulsive, i feel like it's important to understand, even to a very limited degree, why they are the way they are. At least understand their actions. I like to be made uncomfortable by how much i sympathize with a character who's evil. Their actions are evil, but i understand. I see the mirror of their wrath/anger/fear/whatever motivates them in myself. That, to me, is the best kind of antagonist.

Can you? I don't know. There are some actions that, no matter how well-written and motivated the character is, are unjustifiable to me. Where the character has basically lost all chance of redemption and now I'm just hoping for them to receive their just desserts. This kind of character is completely unsympathetic, or even antisympathetic.

"Unsympathetic character" is almost an oxymoron to me, honestly. I feel like the reader should be able to sympathize with most (developed) characters on some level. That's what makes a character a character and not a limp raw chicken breast. If the antagonists aren't sympathetic, do they have any depth?

Thus, I'd say that an unsympathetic hero is...well, difficult to conceive of, first of all. I almost don't think an unsympathetic main character can work.

Despite my disagreement on the earlier point and the greater point of your post, I have to say there is something here. Most of the protagonists I find unsympathetic isn't because they're amoral or evil, but because they're just boring and I can't bring myself to care about them.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Can you? I don't know. There are some actions that, no matter how well-written and motivated the character is, are unjustifiable to me. Where the character has basically lost all chance of redemption and now I'm just hoping for them to receive their just desserts. This kind of character is completely unsympathetic, or even antisympathetic.


Despite my disagreement on the earlier point and the greater point of your post, I have to say there is something here. Most of the protagonists I find unsympathetic isn't because they're amoral or evil, but because they're just boring and I can't bring myself to care about them.

True, there are some villains that are too reprehensible to be sympathized with on any level, I suppose...but I tend not to prefer those kind.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

Me being me, I can pretty much sympathize with villains [or heroes] that other people despise, to some extent. [Shinji from Neon Genesis, infamously...]