Fantasy Combat! Hagrid vs Gregor =)

[FifthView]

The more I think about this, the more I think the fight would be decided within the first 30 seconds or minute.

It is always quite possible that Gregor could deflect Hagrid's first swing, not through brute strength alone but by footwork (moving to the side, so Hagrid's blow is a glance) and spin to come up behind Hagrid, hamstringing him in the backswing. If Hagrid goes to his knees, unable to rise, it's over for Hagrid.

If Hagrid gets one solid blow, most likely with the shield, Gregor's probably lost his advantage in agility and couldn't prevent Hagrid's next attack–due to unconsciousness or at least severe disorientation.

An extended fight would probably go to Hagrid. IF Gregor possessed the kind of cleverness that Oberyn possessed, and more of The Viper's fighting style, he could probably last awhile; but, I don't think he does. He's more likely to engage rather than avoid Hagrid's attacks. OTOH, seeing Hagrid before him might be enough for Gregor to change up his style.

 

[Ban]

Yeah... no way that the big guy in that picture is only 1.5 times the normal guy's height. Also, that does not make my point invalid. An untrained person would not win a swordfight against someone with an immense amount of training. To bring up boxing again, I am a lot taller than Manny Pacquiao with much more reach, he would still knock me out in a few seconds. Sure, Hagrid would put up more of a fight against the Mountain, most likely permanently injuring him even, but an unskilled individual would not win a fight against a highly skilled and more agile opponent.

From personal experience I can tell you that I've seen short, old men win against big, young, muscular beginners. It was barely a challenge for them, because of the experience gap. Really, try it. Go out to a local boxing club and try to fight against the shortest expert they've got.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

Yeah... no way that the big guy in that picture is only 1.5 times the normal guy's height. Also, that does not make my point invalid. An untrained person would not win a swordfight against someone with an immense amount of training. To bring up boxing again, I am a lot taller than Manny Pacquiao with much more reach, he would still knock me out in a few seconds. Sure, Hagrid would put up more of a fight against the Mountain, most likely permanently injuring him even, but an unskilled individual would not win a fight against a highly skilled and more agile opponent.

From personal experience I can tell you that I've seen short, old men win against big, young, muscular beginners. It was barely a challenge for them, because of the experience gap. Really, try it. Go out to a local boxing club and try to fight against the shortest expert they've got.

But the differences in height and are substantially similar, this isn't someone the relative size of a one year old fighting a 6 foot tall person. Skill and experience make up for a lot, but not that much.

 

[FifthView]

Skill and experience make up for a lot, but not that much.

Not quite sure I agree. Given the lack of armed and armored, skilled swordsmen in Rowling's world, it's a safe bet that Hagrid would not only not have much experience or skill with a sword and shield, but he would be utterly inexperienced against such a foe. He wouldn't know what kind of attack would be coming his direction, nor what to do with the sword and shield to deflect that attack or turn it to his advantage. Whereas, Gregor would have no experience against such a strong, large foe, but have vast experience facing foes that are armed with sword and shield.

 

[Ban]

That's ridiculous. Someone 1.5 times the size of another isn't the equivolent of a 1 year old fighting a very tall guy. With that metaphor you suggest that Gregor would have the bodily control of a baby, which he obviously does not. They are both full grown adults (very full) and both know how to use their muscles like an adult.

This fight is the equivolent of a very muscular, normal guy fighting a very muscular and tall guy. The former has extensive experience while the latter does not. I am not suggesting that Hagrid would be a pushover, but his size advantage is not nearly as significant as you try to portray it as.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

That's ridiculous. Someone 1.5 times the size of another isn't the equivolent of a 1 year old fighting a very tall guy. With that metaphor you suggest that Gregor would have the bodily control of a baby, which he obviously does not. They are both full grown adults (very full) and both know how to use their muscles like an adult.

This fight is the equivolent of a very muscular, normal guy fighting a very muscular and tall guy. The former has extensive experience while the latter does not. I am not suggesting that Hagrid would be a pushover, but his size advantage is not nearly as significant as you try to portray it as.

I'm not saying Gregor is a 1 YO I'm saying that is the size difference, Go find a 1 or two year old and see the size difference. It is huge. Hagrid could put his hand on Gregor's head and keep him from punching him. And yes I know they are using swords, but still think about that. In this fight Hagrid has two options, either keep him at a distance or bull rush him and take Gregor to the ground. With the shield that becomes infinitely easier. I would guess Hagrid would drop the sword, charge with the shield, get Gregor on the ground and pound him down.

 

[Ban]

I'd agree with you if the height difference was more significant. Hagrid is "only" 1.5 times Gregor's height, a significant advantage. But it is not an insurmountable one. Personally, I have no idea how big children are at different ages (Don't judge, they all kind of look the same). But I think that Gregor would be comparible to a 10 year old in size, if Hagrid would be an average human. Considering that children don't fully control their body and muscles yet until they go through puberty, Gregor would be significantly stronger than the ten year old in question.
All in all I think that a very strong ten year old, with full muscle control and lots of fighting experience could probably stand up to a very strong adult with almost no experience.

Also keep in mind that Gregor is significantly more agile than Hagrid and if he could manage to avoid Hagrid's bull rush, he'd only have to stab him in the back one time, to put him to the ground.

 

[glutton]

I'm not saying Gregor is a 1 YO I'm saying that is the size difference, Go find a 1 or two year old and see the size difference.

Proportionally the height difference between Hagrid and Gregor is not that between an adult and a 1 year old, but more like a 6' adult and a 4' midget... 12' is 50 percent taller than 8', an adult would be several times taller than a 1 year old.

 

[Ireth]

I'd agree with you if the height difference was more significant. Hagrid is "only" 1.5 times Gregor's height, a significant advantage. But it is not an insurmountable one. Personally, I have no idea how big children are at different ages (Don't judge, they all kind of look the same). But I think that Gregor would be comparible to a 10 year old in size, if Hagrid would be an average human. Considering that children don't fully control their body and muscles yet until they go through puberty, Gregor would be significantly stronger than the ten year old in question.
All in all I think that a very strong ten year old, with full muscle control and lots of fighting experience could probably stand up to a very strong adult with almost no experience.

Also keep in mind that Gregor is significantly more agile than Hagrid and if he could manage to avoid Hagrid's bull rush, he'd only have to stab him in the back one time, to put him to the ground.

I disagree. Hagrid is half-giant, meaning he is far more durable than a normal human, and is explicitly shown to be so at numerous points in the series. Stunning spells and the like simply bounce off him; he's entirely unfazed after being thrown through a window (deliberately, mind you, so he could get into the castle to fight) by his half-brother during the Battle of Hogwarts; and it very likely took Voldemort's whole cadre of Death Eaters (remembering also that they had several allies among the giants as well) to even restrain him during Harry's sacrifice scene in the Forest.

 

[FifthView]

Anyone who has never tried to hold a toddler who is throwing a temper tantrum....well. It's only a good thing we don't let toddlers carry hunting knives.

 

[FifthView]

Stunning spells and the like simply bounce off him

I thought this was due to his giant's blood, more than to total physical resilience.

 

[Ban]

I disagree. Hagrid is half-giant, meaning he is far more durable than a normal human.

Sure, but unless he's made of stone he isn't going to be unscathed by a well-placed sword thrust. Even if his skin is as though as that of an elephant, he'd still be unable to stop a sword from cutting deep into him. Just look at some sword tests of what a sword wielded by a normal man is capable of, and then visualise what Gregor could do with it.

 

[FifthView]

Gregor doesn't have to restrain the whole of Hagrid, nor even manage to hit all 12-feet and 2000lbs of him, but only has to stab or slice knees/thighs (hamstringing), throat, heart, spine, kidneys etc. Picking Gregor up to throw him would place him in range of throat and heart and face, ideal targets for pointy swords. But I don't know what kind of gauge we have for judging Hagrid's toughness against swords, given the dearth of examples from Rowling's world.

 

[Ireth]

I thought this was due to his giant's blood, more than to total physical resilience.

His physical resilience is a direct result of his giant blood, as I said in my original post.

 

[FifthView]

His physical resilience is a direct result of his giant blood, as I said in my original post.

I meant, the anti-spell effects arise directly from the blood, not from the tough skin or whatever that is also a result of his heritage.

Edit: BUT I could be misremembering, and the anti-spell effects might be more a property of skin and flesh (results of "blood" or breeding) rather than directly from the blood.

 

[Devor]

Hagrid by a longshot.

Gregor has those sociopathic instincts. But geesh, people think about the height difference, but Hagrid is also FIVE TIMES AS WIDE as a normal person. That makes the muscle mass difference enormous beyond belief.

On top of this, Hagrid has experience roughing it up with bloodthirsty monsters and much bigger giants and not even realizing they're trying to kill him. Gregor is used to fighting little people who are already intimidated by him. The shock value between fighting a weakling and fighting Hagrid is immense. You want to believe Gregor would keep to his sociopathic instincts, but believe it, he would more than flinch. Hagrid, meanwhile, would need a minute to realize Gregor was even supposed to be a threat. Because he's not.

Finally, dude, Hagrid has a wand. I know that doesn't mean much, but that tiniest element of surprise can turn any battle around.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Wow, my Fantasy Giant battle thread has attracted a lot more of attention than I imagined!

First, in response to Nimue's comment I want to say that this was not my idea. I discovered the same discussion taking place in other sites, thought it was cool and I wanted to do the same in our site. Also, I particularly like it because it demonstrates that a character (contrary to what happens in the GoT world) can be very physically powerful without becoming a vicious killer.

It shows that a Fantasy world can have a character like Hagrid that does not abuse his great strength, that a series can feature this style of character without focusing on what they could do to other people.

Personally I dislike the idea of a furious and bloodthirsty Hagrid with a sword and a shield, because he is one of the sweetest and most likeable characters in the HP series... However, for this fanfictional battle he must be furious so he gets to use all of his physical might in the battle against Gregor.

I agree that a very well trained fighter can defeat a larger one in case that the big dude is not very good in technique, that's true. The point here is that there is a huge difference in height and weight between Hagrid and Gregor, so large a difference that the fight would look almost ridiculous.

A scaled down version of them would be a 6' and 270 pounds man fighting a boy that is 4' and 70lb.

The boy (or midget, if you prefer) would stand no chance no matter how well trained he is, and other people would immediately try to stop the fight because of moral reasons. The advantage in training can only go so far before becoming useless against an opponent that is that much larger than you are.

A Hagrid enraged and full of bloodlust is a very scary idea.

 

[Penpilot]

I think Gregor wins because Hagrid would first try to talk him out of it. "Now-now, can't we talk this over?"

It's at this point Gregor would just gut him. It doesn't matter if Hagrid has more flesh. It's just a bigger target for a razor sharp sword to cut.

After Gregor slices Hagrid, Hagrid survival instincts would take over, and he'd backhand Gregor a country mile. But the damage would have been done and Hagrid would bleed out with all his guts spilling out. (Sorry for the imagery.) And Gregor would die from his wounds after.

IMHO with opponents of equal skill, size will win out almost always. But when it's skill vs the untrained, skill wins.

I have a friend who got into the MMA scene, and from what he says, which can be total BS, if an opponent is obviously less skilled than you, as long as you don't do anything stupid to give them a dominating advantage, it doesn't matter how big they are. He claims to be able to tap less skilled opponents 100lbs bigger than him.

On a slight side note, this thread reminded me of this road rage incident in Texas. To me it's kind of what I imagine the fight would look like, except instead of swords it's bats.

 

[Drakevarg]

Part of the problem with these "it doesn't matter how big they are if they're less skilled" arguments is that they're looking at it from a normal human perspective. For normal human adults "way bigger" is like a foot taller at most and maybe 50-100 lbs heavier.

Neither Gregor or Hagrid are normal humans. This isn't "a normal sized but trained dude fighting a 6'5" guy who weighs 300 pounds but has no experience" This is "a scrawny teenager with a knife vs. an angry gorilla." Hagrid is not bigger than Gregor in the way Gregor is bigger than us. Hagrid is bigger than Gregor in the way a wolf is bigger than a pug.

Also, the terms of the match is that Hagrid is fully enraged and prepared to kill. People keep trying to give Gregor the advantage by claiming Hagrid's too nice a guy for that. This part of the narrative bias thing again. Everyone in GoT is afraid of Gregor. Harry isn't afraid of Hagrid though, because Hagrid is a friend of his. But we KNOW Hagrid is used to danger and HAS been in fights with people before. If given cause to fight, he WILL.

A sword isn't a club.

Yes it is, honestly. Swordfighting knight-style is nothing like fencing. One swordsman I know liked to describe longswords as "three and a half foot crowbars with a pointy end." The fact that they're sharp helps sure, but the important part is that they're long strips of metal you beat people with. So from Hagrid's point of view, he may as well be beating Gregor around with a lamp post.

(Another cognitive bias, we keep talking about how Gregor has a sword he knows how to use but assume Hagrid would go in for a grab. Sheila gave him a three meter long sword. Even if he doesn't know how to use it as a sword, that's still functionally no different than a nine foot long length of metal pipe, giving Hagrid something like 15 foot reach over Gregor's 9. Unless Gregor can make a six foot vertical leap in full plate armor, Hagrid could take him out by just swinging back and forth and backing Gregor into a corner.)

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I haven't read Harry Potter, but I have read ASoIaF. Gregor is beatable against a human-sized opponent. He would've lost to the Viper, except that the Viper tried to make him confess. So as far as size arguments go, Gregor was dropped by a little man with a spear, and it was a poison spear so his upset victory was not without consequence.

I think it's safe to assume that The Mountain has never encountered a bigger warrior. They exist in his world, but Gregor does well for himself because he's a bully.

I'm giving it to the twelve-footer.